Linda Doll: 0:00

Yes. And again, I think a lot of artists, they don't know who they are, they don't know where they want to go, they don't know what their style is, what is their artistic voice? And what I learned is it's your own voice. It's the voice you already have. But we're afraid to use. Rex once said to me, if you are copying somebody else, or if you're not using your strength, you're always running to catch up. If you use your strength in your own voice, you're always two steps ahead and everyone's trying to catch you. Welcome to the Faso podcast, where we believe the Fortune favors of old brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn about or sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others we're in careers tied to the art world in order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Linda doll, an 84 year old, lifelong multimedia artist, Linda shares how a child had spent drawing in Brooklyn and studying at the Brooklyn Museum eventually led her to pursue art seriously after age 30, culminating and graduating with honors in painting and printmaking, she describes a pivotal moment with California watercolorist Rex Brandt, whose advice to start with your Strength helped her Stop imitating others, list her own strengths and finally claim her own unique artistic voice. Linda explains that when she began painting her family and scenes of peaceful everyday life purely for herself, that work unexpectedly became her signature style, winning major awards, building an international reputation and leading to teaching engagements around the world. She emphasizes that artists should find a niche at the intersection of what they love, what they're good at, and what others respond to while being realistic about business, pricing low at first, raising prices gradually and building a solid collector base. Linda also shares practical and philosophical advice on staying creative over a lifetime, working in series, experimenting with multiple media, adapting to physical limitations and maintaining a daily practice of wetting the brush or drawing above all. She urges aspiring, full time artists to be themselves, trust their inner voice and use their personal strengths so they're leading with their own vision, rather than constantly chasing trends. Finally, Linda tells us about her upcoming demos and urges us to keep up with her events by visiting her website. Welcome Linda to the Faso podcast. How are you today? I am fabulous. Thank you. Awesome. I'm so excited to have you because you have an incredible breadth of work and technique, and you're such an explorative artist. And it's really wonderful to talk to someone who just goes with the flow and just goes wherever their their inspiration takes them. Because I find that to be really inspiring. I think many of us hear the tip of like, Oh, you got to focus on one thing. But I think not for everyone. You know, I don't think it works for everyone, and I love that you really have made it work for you. So I'm really happy to have you and to be able to pick your brain. Oh, thank you. Welcome, yeah. But before we dive into more of your work, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do? I'm an 84 year old artist, still working, still producing, still absolutely loving art, still loving learning, still enjoying experimenting, as you just said, I I love trying new things and just just really, you know, pilots love to fly, and they get paid well. And I always figured that artists work hard, and we should get paid well, but they love to fly and I love to produce art. So that's been my philosophy my whole life.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:50

Yes, and that's a great philosophy to have, because I think, obviously, you know, the economy is important, but at the same time, I mean, if you're going to be painting something that makes you miserable, you might as well get a normal day job, because then you know for sure your paycheck is coming in, you know. But yeah. And then, since you've been painting for a very long time, I wanted to ask you as well, when did you begin to follow the path of the artist

Linda Doll: 4:20

as child, I spent every moment I had drawing. I would draw my own paper dolls, and I would draw the clothing for them, and I would sit on a blanket. I lived in Brooklyn, New York, in a in an apartment house. I wasn't allowed out to play. We didn't have a backyard, so my mother would lay a blanket down in the foyer, and I would sit on the blanket and pretend I was on the beach, and she would give me a picnic lunch that I would sit and I would draw for hours, and then she would take me to the Brooklyn Museum, and I would it was the only place that was cool in Brooklyn. And it was during the period when polio was a national epidemic, and so you weren't allowed to get hot or be out in the sun or be out in the heat. And the Brooklyn Museum was a big stone building that was cool. And so I would go take several art classes and drawing classes, and I would spend a good amount of my summer at the Brooklyn Museum. So I actually have been drawing since I was little, but I was not good enough to be in the art club in high school. I hate to say this. I think the nun just wanted girls that would become nuns, and I wasn't good material, so I thought I wasn't good enough. And so many artists go through the period where they doubt themselves, where they don't think they're good enough, where they almost walk away from it because they've been embarrassed by teachers that that said they weren't good or they didn't do something right. And so I didn't do art then for a while. And then after my children were born, an adult ed teacher was teaching a watercolor class, an oil class, actually, at a local school. And I want, I thought, Oh, I think I'll go take a class. And she was the one that really encouraged me to not just do it as a hobby, but to do it seriously, that I had talent and that I should use it. And so then I went to junior college and went to college, and I didn't graduate college until my daughter graduated high school. So even though I always drew and I always painted, I didn't really take it serious until I was what 30 years old, and I graduated with honors, with painting and printmaking from San Diego State, and everything was so easy and fun for me and I, I just loved it. And so that's when I got really, really serious. And we moved about that time. Well before that, we moved from, well, we moved from New York to New Jersey to to Massachusetts to Florida, then to California. When I came out here, I fell in love with the California School of watercolor and Rex Brandt and George post and George Gibson. And I was very fortunate to be able to study with all of them, Millard sheets, you name, the whole California school. And I had the opportunity to take workshops or classes from every one of them, but I realized I wasn't really a Californian. I was, I almost want to say, by coastal, the New York influence. I couldn't quite get rid of there was this back and forth, so I spent a lot of time trying to be somebody else. And again, I think a lot of artists, they don't know who they are, they don't know where they want to go, they don't know what their style is, they don't know what their personality is. You know their voice? What is their artistic voice? And what I learned is, it's your own voice. It's the voice you already have, but we're afraid to use and so we spend a lot of time copying other people, or looking at other work and thinking, Oh, I could do that. Oh, I could do that. But Rex once said to me, if you are copying somebody else, or if you're not using your strength, you're always running to catch up. If you use your strength in your own voice, you're always two steps ahead and everyone's trying to catch you. And I really liked that statement, and I remember he gave a lecture on Start with your strength, this exact topic. And when he was done, I was very puzzled, because it didn't make sense to me. So I went up to him and I said, Rex, if that's true, why do you keep telling me not to draw so much? I know California painters like to draw direct. I mean, paint direct, but why if I like to draw Do you tell me not to? And he thought about it for a minute, and then he said to me, I guess because it's not my strength. And that was the day I found my voice, and I decided I went home from that workshop. I was fortunate enough to be his assistant every summer for four summers, and to stay in his home and be with he and his wife, Joan Irving Brandt, who are fabulous artists. And I went home and I decided that I. Had to make a list of what are my strengths and what are my weaknesses, and how could I use my strengths and stop always fighting my weaknesses? And so I decided that drawing was my strength, organization was my strength, the grid system was my strength. Very clean, transparent color was my strength. Mixing color was my strength, and I made a list of what I wasn't good at. And impromptu was not I was not good at impromptu. I wasn't good on just sitting in front of a piece of paper and trying to imagine this whole painting. I like to see something, even if it was just the corner of the room and the shadows in the way the corner one wall played against the other. I need to see something to get inspired. And so I made this list. And about that time, my dad died, and I realized I had never painted anyone in my family, especially my dad, and I decided that I wanted to do my family in happy, healthy times, and I wasn't going to worry about who bought it. I wasn't going to worry about who liked it. I was going to paint a whole series of paintings for me. Well, that opened an entire world. So I did my mother sitting on the beach with my nieces and nephews. I did my husband with his son, my daughter on his shoulders. I did children playing nicely, and mother sitting relaxing, reading a book, I did all the things that I wanted my life to have was almost like I was painting the world I wanted to see. And one I had a party at my house. There was an artist in town, and everybody that came in went into my studio, and they came out with their I hadn't showed the series to anybody. I had about 20 paintings, and I thought they were just color drawings, and nobody would like them, and they were just my family. And I wasn't being serious, but I was enjoying myself. Every one of them came out and told me that that was my voice, that was who I was. That's what I needed to do. I sent one to AWS and got one in immediately. I sent one to NWS, got in immediately, got my signature in both organizations. Won top awards in every show I entered, was asked to jury all over the world. My paintings went on a travel several travel shows for both organizations, people around the world saw my work and invited me to come teach in their state. So I've taught in every state and in probably 30 countries around the world, and all because I was doing something that I absolutely loved and meant something to me. And my people would ask, When is your painting successful? And I would say, when someone takes one moment and takes a deep breath, looks at it, and just takes one moment of silence in the day, or one minute of peace in the day. I'm not going to paint a Guernica. That's not who I am. I'm not going to paint the atrocities of war. I think it's wonderful that someone else does that, but it's not me. I wanted to give pleasure and joy and peace to people. I'm a mother, and my aura is blue. I mean, I am the nurse, the mother, the you know, I take care of people, and so my paintings needed to do the same thing. I know that sounds kind of corny, but that's, you ask me what I do, that's what I do.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:05

Yeah, yeah. And your work definitely transmits a lot of peace and tranquility and calmness, and even just your use of color, you know, it, it's, it's so like these beautiful washes and, yeah, I can totally see, you know why I

Linda Doll: 14:23

paint every painting, no matter how large it is, with three colors, only

Laura Arango Baier: 14:28

awesome,

Linda Doll: 14:29

one red, one yellow and one blue. I use the printers colors. I use cyan, magenta and reproduction yellow. And I love mixing my own color. Absolutely love mixing color. To me, that's just sheer pleasure. It's food for my soul.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:46

Yeah, yeah. And actually, it's so funny that you mentioned that I recently got myself cyan magenta and like, a proper yellow to try that out, because I know that you can actually mix red from that, which is something that people don't realize. Mix red with like the magenta and the yellow.

Linda Doll: 15:03

Okay, on my web page, I actually have a full demonstration of me doing a painting that I did for Bulgaria, and I kept a copy of it and put it on my web page, and I take you through step by step and and wash by wash. So if anybody's interested? It's www Linda doll com, and it's right on there,

Laura Arango Baier: 15:26

yeah, and I can also add the link to that in the show notes. So

Linda Doll: 15:31

yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 15:31

anyone out there,

Linda Doll: 15:32

they just enjoy seeing it. It's a very different way to work. I work in I work in layers, almost as if it's funny. When I was when I was, well, I'm still a teacher, but when I had some larger classes, I used to have people look at cards, calendars on the internet. Well, we didn't have as much internet then, but any books and find something that they wish they had painted and they would have shown to a kindergarten teacher, a college instructor and a gallery owner of a gallery, they wanted to get in something that that they would show to a wide range of people and say, This is my this is my best work I did, and I did it myself as well, and I found out everything I loved was a Sarah graph, but I didn't want to do serigraphs. But I got the idea that if I kind of did my watercolors as if I were doing a serigraph, layer by layer, that I could please myself. And that's part of how my whole system, or not system, but my style developed. And so they're very, very I wait for one layer to dry. You'll, I mean, if you see the video, it's, it really does explain exactly what I do. And so it became, I became very well known in my area, and especially in the gallery that I was in, and everybody wanted a painting of their family. I could do, I mean, I could have done commissions. I mean, I couldn't do, I couldn't do enough of them that, you know. I mean, they take time, and we some we talk about pricing. My pricing was fairly high for a watercolor and for what people were surprised that I was able to get the money that I could. But it's all supply and demand. So if you have something that nobody else is doing and that they can't get anywhere else. And if you're lucky enough to find a family, which I did, who was very popular in town, who had me do their family, and everyone who came to their house then wanted one of their family. So yeah, supply and demand, find out where your audience is. Find out what are you good at, and what do people like that you do, and how can you combine that to make yourself very unique. And I know one of the questions you had asked me was, how do you find your voice, and how do you find your collector base? And part of it is finding being unique if you're doing what everyone else is doing, it's hard. It is a hard business anyway, so if you have something nobody else is doing. So I would ask artists, what do you love? What sport do you play? What hobby do you have? Maybe you want to just paint. I mean, you might not want to do figures, but if you did, maybe you want to do golfers on the golf course. I mean, there's a market that boy you want to put, put one or two in the golf club. Everybody will want their painting on the golf course. So you know, or if you flowers, if you love to paint flowers, find a way to do them a little differently and then show them at the at a floral show, or show them at a botanical garden, or show them somewhere where people are really interested in flowers, and you might even or if You like pets, you might at the at your groomers. You may put your your paintings at your groomers or at your veterinarian. So figure out what it is you really love. What are you good at? What what paintings have people commented most of yours. When people come into your studio, what do they see? And say, Oh, I love that one. That's your answer. That's your clue. And like I say, Find something you do differently, and most of the time it's something you're already doing in your life. If you love to cook, maybe you want to paint vegetables. Tools and and kitchen stuff, and find a kitchen store or a gallery that that appreciates or do the the kitchen things differently. But that's what I really strive for people to find where their heart is, what, what do they love, and then figure a way to paint that. And if you're an abstract painter, then find a find a way to do your abstracts a little differently. Go to a furniture store and see what colors they're showing. And maybe you could do your abstracts in that and show it in a furniture store. I know that everyone wants to be in a high class Gallery, and they want to have, you know, this high reputation, but the market is really hard right now. So if you want to make a living as an artist, you may have to start somewhere else, and then then you have the collector base to go to a gallery and say, yes, I've sold 200 paintings at the furniture store. I've sold so many paintings here my you know, my vet sells paintings every month. You need to have that collector base, or that that resume, that you have people like what you do, and they want to pay for it. And too many artists, I think, want to start out at the top, and they don't want to work their way up. I'm sorry, but that's a reality, and we all do that. It meet me as well. You know, it's just yeah, but there are ways, if somebody really wants to try to make it, then the other way is classes. You know, having some classes, you might even start in your own studio, or you might start with adult ed programs. And a lot of times, students will buy paintings. And then I was working at the at the junior college when I got a call from Johanna Morell, who ran Flying Colors art workshops, and she took Americans all over the world on art workshops, and asked me to be one of her teachers. And I mean, I, you know, Italy, France, Germany, Japan, Bali, you name it, I've taught there because she took me to teach there. And so I made a really good living. I'm one the few artists that I know that that made a really, really good living being an artist, but I also worked very, very hard there, you know, I don't know any occupation you have that you don't work hard. So you can't just play. It might be, it may feel like play, but you're also working. You're also doing the business side of art. You're also promoting yourself. You're having a website, you're you're putting stuff on social media. I'm a photographer as well, and I post a flower every single day on Facebook and Instagram, just to keep my name out there. When I do some new collages, I put it on both Facebook and Instagram, and I get all kinds of comments, and I often get a quote, is that one for sale? And I send them to my web page because I've got a shop on my web page. I'm I was in several galleries. Unfortunately, I've had to pull out temporarily. I'm dealing with a cancer, and I'm cancer free right now, but I've had a rough couple of years, so I pulled out, and my goal is next January to be back in the open market. But right now, I'm still producing. I've got a new body of work to put out there when I get back out there. And then my collage work, I've started to do collage, and I'm absolutely loving it. And was fortunate enough to take first place on one of the boldbrush's competitions, which was $1,000 award, which was fabulous. And any artist who's not doing that and entering that is foolish. That gets your work out there. It gets you known. Having a newsletter from BoldBrush From Faso is a wonderful way to go. I guess I'm talking too much about business. Did you have questions you wanted to ask? I'm

Laura Arango Baier: 24:24

sorry, no, it's great. Um, I mean, I wanted to touch a little bit further on actually your work, because I know that you've experimented with a lot of different materials and different things. So my question is, how, like, Where does an idea begin for you?

Linda Doll: 24:45

In my dreams? No, not really dreams, I go to bed early. My husband has passed away, so I live alone, and so I often get in bed a little early knowing I'm going to lay there. For about an hour before I fall asleep. But I call that my creative time, and I just lay there quietly, and I think about, okay, I have a painting that's going or I have a new series I want to start, and I have a little pen and pencil next to my bed, and all I have to write is one word. But last night like I was laying in bed, and I thought, doors. I want to do doors and windows. And so I I know exactly. I almost painted, not painted. I almost collaged a collage in my sleep and in my in that state of half sleep and half wake. And I wrote on the on the piece of paper, doors, windows. And when I got up this morning, I could visualize all the ideas I had so quiet time, meditation time. And there's different ways to meditate. You can do that wide awake and fully dressed, but for me, laying in bed quietly before I fall asleep, seems to be when I get the very best ideas and the most creative ideas and things I never would have thought of for me any other way. Yeah, so it's quiet time, and it's just getting into a thinking state, or I don't even say thinking, creative state of what haven't I done? What can I try next? I've never done anything with windows and doors and somehow, and somehow, it always, it always seems to replicate my life. So there must be a window or door that's going to open for me, because usually when I get an idea like that, it's almost a foretelling of something to accept when something com I mean, that's weird, but yeah, a lot of times it's things that are happening in my life anyway, that I maybe haven't even recognized. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 27:05

no, and that really that's so cool because it also reminds me of the way that Dali used to get his ideas for his pieces, which is that he would take a nap, or he would be in that semi asleep state where he would start to fall asleep, and he would hold some keys in his hand, and the moment he would fall asleep, he would drop the keys, and then whatever image he had at that moment, he would write it down, or whatever word or anything. So it's very reminiscent of that. And I think it's really cool, because I think we really, when you really tap into that, it is such a wealth of deep inspiration. And sometimes you get goofy ideas, and maybe it's not really one to pursue, but oftentimes you'll get something that's just like, Oh my gosh. Like, how, where did that come from? That was so perfect. You know,

Linda Doll: 27:54

by the way, I didn't really respect Dolly for a long time, and I was teaching in catechism Spain, and I got to go to the dolly house and studio. Oh, my God, that man was one of the most creative people ever. I have a total respect, and I'm embarrassed that I wasn't at a level I could appreciate him before that. But he was a genius. He really was, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 28:23

I agree he's one of my favorites. I think there are, you know, just like with any any musician, for example, not every song is going to be your favorite, so not every painting of his is going to be my favorite, either, but there's, I can definitely appreciate his breaking away from the norm, really persuading

Linda Doll: 28:45

what he had in his studio were unbelievable. I mean, creativity beyond what I could ever think of. Yeah, yeah. It was just what he was doing with mirrors, what he was doing with I mean, everything, and then I got to go to the museum with his jewelry, a visionary. I mean, just unbelievable. So and what? What I usually say when I don't like somebody, I never say I don't like them. I say, You know what, I'm not at a level yet where I can appreciate them. I haven't learned enough about them. And once I did, wow, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 29:21

if you've been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guest live questions, then you might want to join our monthly webinar, the Faso show, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you're a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn and spark new ideas, and whether you're stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don't miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next Faso show webinar is coming up on the 21st of May, with our special guest, Deborah Kearse. You can find the sign up link in the show notes at BoldBrush. We inspire. Artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today, right now in order to get your artwork out there and seeing by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast, that's faso.com forward slash podcast,

Linda Doll: 31:39

yes, I totally agree. And actually, speaking of you know that having like different materials, right? Because Dali worked with different materials, but you've been working with different materials for a while. Do you mind telling us a little bit more about the current technique or material that you've really, really gotten into? So when I was in school, they used to tell you you had to stick with one thing you had to be known for one thing. And I looked at all, you know, Picasso, I looked at Dolly, I looked at all these people, and I thought, well, how come they didn't have to do that? Why do I have to do it if they didn't? So I gave that up a long time ago, and so I do. I'm actually a Zentangle certified instructor, and I do great, big, huge Zentangle drawings. I do photography, I do digital collage, I do regular collage, I do watercolors, I go urban sketching every single week. I but you know what? They always look like mine. I don't care which media I do, somehow I come out through all of them, and everybody always knows it's mine, because somehow I've managed to, in every single one of them, come up with a Well, like I said earlier, certain colors, certain compositional devices, certain you know, I like the grid. I like the cruciform. I like I like simple I like big, simple shapes. So whether I'm doing a collage or whether I'm doing a watercolor or whether I'm doing photography, those things come through if I let them. And so, yeah, I right now I'm really enjoying collage, and I'll tell you why. Right now I can't bend over a full sheet watercolor, and I wasn't able to paint, and I wasn't going to give up doing art, and I decided I had to find something I could do, small and sitting with a pillow behind my back, and I needed to work with what I had to work with. And so I rearranged my studio. I don't know if you can see behind me. I have a huge room, and I've got a huge drafting table, and I've got three short tables, and so each one is a station. And so the one behind me, with a nice chair with a with a back cushion, is where I can sit and do collage and not hurt and be able to work and get something done. And I just have to be creating. It's, it's food for my It's like eating. You know, our body needs to eat and our soul needs creativity. So I, and I'm actually right now coaching for a Kathleen of got my, my brain just flipped out. Okay, my I'm coaching for Catherine rains class and helping her and answering questions for artists. And I just love that I can I had so many good teachers who. Shared with me, and I love sharing. There's too much knowledge in that head not to share it, and it's not mine. I didn't make it up. It's all been given to me, and I feel like I need to pass it on to the next generation. So this is really been fun. So she has 2000 students that she has an online class, and every other day, I go on and answer questions from the students, any question they want to ask about art they can ask, and I answer right online. And I am loving that. It's really gotten me motivated to even do more of my own work.

Laura Arango Baier: 35:37

Yeah, yeah. I love that. And I think you mentioned a couple things there that I'm like, oh yes, you know, even one is that constraints oftentimes breed the most incredible ideas, or the best renewals of ideas. So like the constraint of you, okay, well, I can't, you know, bend over and paint, but I will do something else that works within this constraint, I think that is, you know, it just, it's that perseverance of, I need to make something. I need to do something. I have the same itch in my hands. I call it like the creative itch, like I'm, like, I'm itching. I need to hold something and use it to make a thing, any craft.

Linda Doll: 36:18

While I was sick, I made every one of my great grandchildren an afghan. I crocheted an afghan. I'm now making them, knitting them hats. My hands have to be doing something all the time.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:31

Yes, I relate so deep to that. And then I also wanted to circle back to something else you mentioned earlier about your ideas as well, which is the importance of quiet time, because I think also, especially if you're knitting, crocheting, doing anything, that kind of shuts off your brain in a funny way and just lets you be in the moment, I also find that that really helps your brain decompress, and it becomes more of like, it's almost like tilling the soil to allow like, little seeds to start to emerge. Because if you, if you start, you know, I guess if you, if you put too much information in your brain, and you don't allow yourself to sift through it and to settle it in your head, you just end up really tired and overworked and burnt out, and then suddenly you you end up not doing anything for like, weeks. I don't know if you relate to that, because you're just

Linda Doll: 37:31

so tired. Yes, yeah, yeah, no, it's that one hour, like I said, it's, it's one hour every night that I just lay there, and it's I'm just amazed at how many how I can get into a creative state. And when I'm in my studio, I'm more productive, but I'm not as I don't come up with new ideas as much. I tend to do more of what I do all the time, where, when I'm in that state, I, like, I said, I came, I can't wait today to get and figure out how to do some windows and doors, and how to sketch some windows and doors and then put them into the collage. I mean, I'm, I have this whole idea of this whole new series. I'm like, yes, okay, I got another series to do, and I usually work in series. I will work on four to six pieces at a time, and they'll all have something in common, so they all kind of hang together as a series. And then I may never go back to that series again, because I always want to be and sometimes people say, Well, can you do that in blue? And I'm like, a no, that needed to be red,

Laura Arango Baier: 38:51

yeah, yeah. And that actually also reminds me, you know, that stubbornness of like, just following your vision, and this is this, is it? This is what I'm being called to do. I think earlier, you also mentioned how artists, we work really, really hard. And you know, when you're trying to find your voice as an artist, I think one of the hardest things is also to set aside all of those expectations of, oh, I should be doing this. I should be doing that. That's also the hard work is staying as true to yourself as possible without I mean, yeah, it's good to reference other artists, especially, you know, old masters and people that you admire, because nothing exists in a vacuum. It's inevitable, but at the same time, you know it's hard work to really just focus on your own vision and to stick to it without, you know, getting distracted by, like, oh, but it would be so cool, like, that guy over there is doing that, or that person over there is doing that. And, you know, it's good to, once again, quiet time and to just strictly, you know, focus on, on your vision. Yeah,

Linda Doll: 39:56

my my goal, and I'm pretty. Strict with it is to either do a drawing or wet the brush every day. I don't have to produce something. I don't have to finish something. It might just be a sketch in my sketchbook. As I say, I go out urban sketching a lot, and those sketches never come out of the sketchbook. But it's me working. It's thinking, it's my hand eye coordination staying sharp. It's so every day, I just set time aside. And it's usually in the morning, I usually get a cup of coffee and go in the studio, and then after about an hour, if I have other things to do, then they get done. But I put art first,

Laura Arango Baier: 40:44

yeah, I mean,

Linda Doll: 40:46

and maybe only for a short time, but like today, I have some appointments and things I have to do. So well, this is art. I count this, but typically I would go in the studio with my cup of coffee for an hour and do something, and in collage, it might just be making more papers I'm going to collage with, or it may be actually doing a full collage. Or it might be when I was doing my watercolors, it might be just doing the drawing and coming back the next day and putting on some washes, and it might be another day before I put finish it. I don't have to finish a project at one time, but I have to work every day. Yes, and it's

Laura Arango Baier: 41:30

that consistency that really just beats out anything. I mean, every artist that I've interviewed and has been successful and has, you know, just really reaped the rewards of the career is there. They've all been so, so, so adamant about consistency. And it makes perfect sense, because it really does, like it, like, in your case, right? You have, like, I'm just gonna paint my loved ones on the beach and I'm gonna stay consistent with, you know, the theme and the way that they're laid out, and how much you know the inspiration behind it. You're you're not just painting this. Oh, well, I guess I gotta paint another one. No, you're definitely doing it from place of love.

Linda Doll: 42:11

So even that series had a series within a series. So when my father first died, I did a lot of paintings of fathers with children. And then when I got what I called finished with that, then I did mothers with children. Then when I got done with that, my mother started to date somebody. And I did a whole series of senior citizen romance and seniors holding hands and walking on the beach. And then when that got done, I did a whole series of shadows and reflections. Every painting had to have a shadow and a reflection. And then when I got done with that, I did a series of bocce ball players. And then I did a series of golfers. So even within the series. I didn't allow myself to get bored or to get complacent. I continually kept asking myself, what else could you do that's still in that series? And then in the meantime, I'd be doing the commissions of people as well, and I didn't really enjoy the Commission's as well as the ones that I really wanted to do. But one of the other things you touched on was financial and people needing to make money. I mean, we need to live, and the cost of living has just gotten huge. So the commission was, wasn't my create. It was creative, but it wasn't my real creative time. But I knew that I could make a lot of money. I could make enough that I could take several days and do my own paintings. And when it came to pricing, I actually priced it based on whether there was 1234, people in the painting, and whether there was a pet in the painting, and you know, a lot of times it was families of four and a pet, well, that takes a long time. And like I say, I was fortunate enough, my prices got up there really high. And that is a problem that I want to tell people about. When your prices get too high, you better have a good collector base, because it's a lot easier to sell less expensive paintings. But once you go up, you can't come down, so be careful. Excuse me, be careful. When you're a new painter, don't think you can get what the advanced painters, or the painters who have been painting and having a collector base for years get just because you think yours is as good as theirs, doesn't mean everybody else thinks that. So my advice to new painters was always to start lower and have series, and when they sell out, raise the price on the next series and raise it a little bit every single time, until you have a nice collector base, absolutely. But I see way too many painters who say, Oh, but I don't want to really sell it. I'm going to put a $5,000 price on it. Like, who's going to buy it? Come on and it's it. There's something about selling a painting that motivates you to paint another painting or two more. It's just a nice satisfaction when it's not your family, when it's a total stranger who comes to you and says, Oh, I love that. That reminds me of my son and his wife. I want to buy that. Man. Do you start you it's, it's like, yeah, it's, it's energy, food. So I know we have a wide range. We have very advanced painters on this call, but we also have some new ones. And I would say, go up slow with your pricing it. And I think Frank Webb used to always say that a 200 if you've done 200 paintings, you're a beginner. If you've done 500 paintings, you're an intermediate. And until you get to 1000 paintings, you're not an advanced painter. So stop thinking, because you did five paintings, you're an advanced painter.

Laura Arango Baier: 46:30

That is true. That is Yeah, true, yeah. And, but then how did, how did you figure out your pricing strategy? Besides, you know, just having, like, different, oh, that's these different characters. Like, where was your starting point? Like, did you look at other people's work and compare? Or, how did that go?

Linda Doll: 46:48

I started out in a co op gallery. And Co Op galleries, you work one day a week, and you'll pay a much less commission. And I started, I started lower, and I had a price for every size. Excuse me, every size had a different price range. So with watercolor, it was quarter sheet, half sheet, three quarter sheet and full sheet was, you know, where the size is approximately. And I know a lot of people do it with measurements. They take the width and the height, and then they multiply it by an amount, and that's a really good way to go. And so I started at what I thought was a very reasonable price. The San Diego watercolor society sells a lot of work. So I looked at what price they were selling at. And at that time I was president of the Society, so I had all the information that I needed. And so I went on the low side, and when I started to sell quite a few of them. Then every January 1, I would raise the price a little bit okay, and every single year I would raise the price just a little bit on January 1, and the old pieces would stay at the regular price, and the new pieces went up. And that worked for me. And I was fortunate, this Co Op gallery sold a lot, and a gallery in La Jolla ona happened to come in, loved my work and invited me to go to her gallery. Then it was 50% commission. But then I raised my prices considerably more because the co op gallery was 20% so I had to take a little higher jump. I also had to absorb a little bit. It kind of was a compromise of what I would raise the prices to, and then I kept raising them every January 1.

Laura Arango Baier: 48:50

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And I'm guessing you didn't raise it like, let's say you may raise it like, about

Linda Doll: 48:55

10% Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 48:57

there you go. That makes perfect sense. Yeah? Also because, you know, inflation, change of concepts,

Linda Doll: 49:03

um, La Jolla has a lot of visitors. So even though it was a little annoying, not annoying, just a little extra work, um, I told the gallery that they could unframe My piece, I would put a com, what I called complimentary framing, which was a good archival mat, nice thick, you know, a ply mat, and a Nielsen metal frame, which was very easy to just undo two screws and take it out. And if anyone traveling, well, I didn't care if they were traveling, but if anybody wanted the painting, then she would unframe it. And we had a deal that if they only, if they wanted the mat, if they didn't want the frame, she could take off 10% if the they didn't want the mat in the frame, she could take off 20% and roll it, put it in a tube, and she. Take 10% off for shipping it to them, where they were, you know, I mean, and we shared the, the the I didn't take the full, you know, but she had so many people, and then I would go in and pick the frame up, bring it home and put another painting in it, bring it back and deliver it again. So it was a little extra work. But like I said, there's, there's some parts of the business that are just plain work,

Laura Arango Baier: 50:25

yeah, yeah. It's a lot of taking care of all the little things like that, like the, oh, making sure that the piece is framed and that the frame is working and that it has, of course, your signature has the math, that everything is smooth, and then delivering the pieces. It's the

Linda Doll: 50:44

other thing I just popped in my head. I always advise artists never to date their paintings on the front, because the minute they see a date on the front of last year or the year before, they always say, Do I get a discount? It's an old painting, and it may be one of the best paintings I've ever done, and I kept it in the studio for a year because I wanted to grow into it. So I always tell people not to, to put that date on the front, that that can be a real deterrent to people buying it if they think it's old and nobody else wanted it,

Laura Arango Baier: 51:19

yeah, oh, I've never heard that, but that's, I mean, that's kind of silly. Can I get a discount? As it were, machines,

Linda Doll: 51:26

the other thing I usually tell people, if they're working on paper, is to sign their paintings with a graphite pencil and a good number two, I mean, to be because if they, if they take your painting and they try to reproduce it, the the reproduction will flatten the signature. And if you use a to be pencil, and you look on the side, you can actually see the graphite, and even framed, you can tell if it's an original or a print.

Laura Arango Baier: 51:59

Interesting, that's

Linda Doll: 52:01

a Yeah, yeah. Now not all media you can sign with pencil, but if it's possible, I do prefer to sign with something that won't reproduce, that will reproduce flat, and then when people can't just make prints of your work,

Laura Arango Baier: 52:16

yeah, yeah. That's a really good tip. Um,

Linda Doll: 52:20

yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 52:21

And then I also want to, I want to go back a little bit, because I want to ask you about what your transition to becoming a full time artist was like, like, what was the moment where you were like, Oh my gosh, I'm making a living from this. What was that like for you?

Linda Doll: 52:38

Um, so I was pretty much a hobbyist in teaching at the the junior college. You know, I mean, I was half serious, half professional and half not. And when I started to work for a flying colors art workshops, and I started teaching workshops, and my income went up severely. And at that time, my husband was starting his own company, a computer company, and financially, we really needed me to have an income. And I realized that I was making really good money and I could become and that a lot of my students would buy my pieces. So not only and that at that time, a lot of the watercolor societies all over the USA knew me and started asking me so every single month, all year, I traveled one week a month or two, and taught all over the US and all over the world. And my husband had to take care of the kids, but he knew that that's what we needed to do to get his business up and going, and it kind of forced me to become professional, and to to to to accept that I was a professional. Um, sometimes it's hard everyone else accepts us, except ourselves, and we need to be put in a situation where we say, Yes, this is how much I charge. This is I am a professional. I would love to come and do your workshop, but this is my rate. This is what I do, and this is what I give. And I actually made a course manual that I gave to all my students, that was never available for sale. And so when somebody came to my class and say, Illinois or Chicago or somewhere, they'd go home and they'd show their their their course manual to their sister or their brother or somebody, and then another organization would say, my sister was in your class. I want you to come to Florida. I want you to come to Alabama. And so word of mouth was really you could take ads in magazines, and unless people knew you, and unless someone else had taken your class. So once it got the ball, got. Rolling. Wow, it just, it just really got rolling. And so every single month I had a very good income. And so I was making $700 a day, plus all expenses. And if you do that for a week or two, and then you have two weeks to go home and paint in your studio anything you want. So that was for me really, um, I just got thrust into it,

Laura Arango Baier: 55:31

yeah, yeah. But I think the gosh, I Oh, that is so it's so interesting, because I think a lot of artists relate. There's like that feeling of like, you said, like, imposter syndrome, of like, Oh, but I mean, I'm just, I'm just doing this. Who, what? Who would even do? I deserve this, and I think y'all

Linda Doll: 55:51

deserve it, yes, and artists deserve to be considered as a professional, and they deserve to make good money. Sorry, but you need to accept that and tell yourself, yeah. And so that's where the pricing comes in. And you need to price it. You need to make at least your framing, plus maybe double it, you know. Or, you know, you need to make as much as, as as your gallery's making, you know, or, or, yeah, so you need to take yourself serious. It got to a point where this is another thing I like to advise artists with. And I know that organizations don't like me to do this, but organizations will call you all the time and ask you to donate a painting for an auction, and they have no idea, really what they're asking for. And so it might be a $1,200 payment, and they want it framed, you know, so you you're talking $2,000 is what they're really asking for, and they have no idea, and they're going to auction it off for $200 and think they're doing good. I'm serious. And so I used to say them, you know what, my inventory is low. How about I donate $100 to your organization instead? And they're like, Oh, thank you. That's wonderful. And if they said, Oh, but we really wanted to feature your painting, and we really wanted it as a draw, I'd say, Okay, I'll give you a painting, because they were, they were going to be advertising me as well, not just sticking me in a back room and selling it for 200 so I wanted to know, and it's only fair that if I give something, I get something in return, and advertising for an artist is good return, but not if it's you're not going to get it. So I would test them and say, What if I, what if I donate $100 I mean, the frame was more than $100 yeah, and I do. These were, these were very good organizations. They were organizations I believed in. I just they had no idea what they were asking for.

Laura Arango Baier: 58:08

Yeah, I have also run into people who work in whether they're like, hosting workshops or artist residencies, and they make demands that, like, make absolutely no sense for an artist, and you can tell that they themselves are not an art themselves are not an artist, because usually the timeline is totally wrong. They're like, Oh, we're expecting this number of paintings in this time period. It's like, that's not going to happen. What size are we talking Do you want? Big Do you want? Because the only way I'm going to get that number done is if they're all very small paintings, because that is just not feasible. So

Linda Doll: 58:43

when I went to Bulgaria no Albania, Dan No, I'm sorry, Pakistan, I was invited to the university in Pakistan to stay in the university and teach the female the female students at the university, but they wanted a painting in return, and then they would pick up all expenses. And I said, Fine, but I'm not going to do it while I'm there. There's no way I can teach the class and do a painting that I want hanging in your university that I can be proud of. So I I actually ended up giving them three paintings because they really were fabulous, and they really took care of me. And so what I did was I took a lot of photography. I took a lot of pictures. A lot of people there, the president of the university, the teachers who were really good to me, and I did three paintings that included them, and sent it back six months after, and they knew they were coming, but I needed time, I, you know, I wanted it to be appropriate and hang in their university, and to have people look at it and go, Oh, that's Dean so and so, that's, you know, and so. Well, they were more than willing to wait. You know, I told them I was good for it, but that I was it wasn't going to be something I painted there, and it wasn't going to be something from California that was inappropriate in their the way they dress, the way they you know, a lot of my you know, we dress in short. So we dress inappropriate for Pakistan, so I wanted to do something that was very appropriate for them.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:29

Yeah, yeah. And that goes to show to the importance of communication as well with, like, any organization that an artist works with, you know, what are the expectations? What? And, you know, how can you compromise? And I think that was an excellent compromise, especially considering they patiently waited as well, and they were happy with the results. And that's what matters. They

Linda Doll: 1:00:50

were thrilled. Yeah, they really were.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:52

I mean, they wanted, when they got three, that's really great. But yeah, and then, besides all of these incredibly awesome pieces of advice. Is there one final piece of advice that you would like to give any listener who really wants to become a full time artist?

Linda Doll: 1:01:09

Be yourself. Be yourself. Figure out who you are. Figure out what's important to you. Figure out what you love to do more important than what other people want from you. What do you enjoy? What is your strength? How can you always be ahead of everyone, instead of running to catch up? What can you do? What do you do that's unique? Find a find a niche. Might be a small niche, but any niche is better than none. Find something that that you love and others love that you

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:47

do beautiful. Yes, I think that's those are all excellent pieces of advice, but yeah, I

Linda Doll: 1:01:55

know we all have a strength. Every one of us have strengths and every one of us have strong personalities. There's not an artist on this call who doesn't have a strong voice when it's something they care about. Use that voice in your painting or in your collage or in your photography or whatever it is.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:14

Yeah, yeah. It's very true, and again, that I think it's really hard work to allow yourself to do that right, to give yourself the permission and the validation, to say, Yeah, my voice does matter. My voice.

Linda Doll: 1:02:27

Trust your inner voice.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:29

Yes, yeah, perfect. Yes. And then if anyone wants to learn from you, or wants to see some of your work, do you have any upcoming shows or any upcoming events that you'd like to promote.

Linda Doll: 1:02:42

I usually put my work on my web page, which I said earlier, www dot Linda doll com. I will be doing a demonstration in Denver in July. I've kind of limited this year. I'm just starting to open my calendar up again, but I have a couple of demos. I also have some videos on procreate for the beginner artist, so that they can start to use procreate if they want. That's all free on YouTube, and the link is in my web page, all the supplies I use. I have a supply list on my web page that lists all the products I use and and I do do a lot on Amazon, but it's the link to Amazon to a lot of the products I use. I do post a lot on Facebook. Linda doll com and Instagram. Linda doll five, I think, no, I'm sorry, Facebook is Linda doll and Instagram is Linda doll five, and I'd love you to follow me. And I do post all different things. I try to keep it pretty art. Occasionally I put family, but mostly it stays art. And whether it's a photograph I'm posting or the group out urban sketching, it's it's just me loving life, enjoying myself and sharing it on social media, and then I do post on my on my Facebook. I've been really bad this year about my newsletter, just because of issues, but my goal is to get back to start doing my newsletter again, so you can sign up for my newsletter. If you're interested, email me. Linda doll@me.com if you have questions. I love to hear from artists. I love to mentor artists. I also have a mentoring program where you you don't sign up for any specific time, you just sign up for one at a time. It's about 45 minutes. You send me six to eight paintings, and we on Zoom, we go over them, and I don't critique them as much as analyze them. I like to ask you questions about what was your intention? Where does your eye go first? So. It's not me telling you how to change your painting, because I want the paintings to stay yours, and I want you to still be able to enter shows with them. I want you to feel like you made every decision in in the piece. So I'll usually say, you know, either you need a dark in the top left, or you need a light in the bottom right, you know, squint down. Which one feels better to you? So I do have that program, and it's pretty inexpensive. I think it's $50 for a critique session with me. And I just love I have quite a few people all over the country who just, you know, every two or three months, sometimes it's six months, email me and say, Okay, I need another critique or analyzing session and and I love I love mentoring artists. I just don't want to do full teaching anymore. But at 84 I think I'm entitled to it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:02

Yes, sure, you're definitely entitled to a well deserved

Linda Doll: 1:06:06

but I'm Greek, totally computer literate. I think I do really well for my age. So

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:11

yeah, I mean, you even have Amazon links. That's crazy. I don't have Amazon links.

Linda Doll: 1:06:16

Yeah,

Unknown: 1:06:16

yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:17

Oh man, but it was such a wonderful treat to have you? Oh,

Linda Doll: 1:06:20

I love talking with you. Thank you, yeah, thank you for inviting me,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:25

of course, and thank you for being here. Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you've enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple, podcast Spotify or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you. Bye.