Miriam Schulman: 0:00

Okay, so the biggest mistake people make is they believe that cheaper is easier to sell. So if you're if your fur baby needed surgery that cost $2,000 and you have some sort of cream or neighbor down the street or down the hall, depending whether you live in an apartment or like I do, or wherever, and they say, Oh no, I know a guy who can do that same surgery for you for 200 bucks? No, you're not doing that. You don't because it's a, it's It's trust. Is this for real? So money is one way to signal to people that you're for real.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:35

Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Miriam Schulman, a New York based artist, author of the book, artpreneur, and host of the inspiration plays podcast. Miriam left a Wall Street career after 911 and has since built a long term sustainable art business while coaching other artists on marketing and mindset. She explains how sales training at a gym gave her the aha moment that sales skills are transferable and can be used to successfully sell art. A core theme of her book, artpreneur is choosing to believe you're an artist, claiming that identity early and confidently, rather than waiting for external permission. Miriam identifies common mistakes artists make, especially underpricing their work and assuming cheaper is easier to sell, arguing instead that higher prices signal trust quality and a better collector experience. She strongly advocates for email marketing over social media, detailing why email vastly outperforms Instagram and engagement and how artists should collect addresses and email weekly in a personal story driven way. Finally, she recommends LinkedIn and YouTube used thoughtfully and collector focused as better long term platforms than Instagram, and closes by urging artists to keep marching forward, taking consistent steps rather than freezing in fear or blaming external circumstances. Welcome Miriam to the BoldBrush show. How are you today? I'm good. How are you? I'm good. I'm really excited to have you, because you have one of the coolest books that I've seen, I have yet to read it. I'm excited, though, to read it, because you teach basically what I think every artist who listens to this podcast wants to know, especially artists who already have a good amount of work that they want to try to sell and put out there. So I'm really excited to pick your brain, especially about your book, as I mentioned, entrepreneur, which our listeners can go and check out. We do have the links in the show notes at this point, so go check it out. But before we dive in even more into your really awesome advice and tips, do you mind telling us a bit more about who you are and what you do, sure.

Miriam Schulman: 3:03

So I'm Miriam Shulman. I am, like you said, author of our preneur, host of the inspiration plays podcast. And I haven't always been an artist. So I have been an artist since 2000 which, Whoa, that was 26 years ago. But when I was younger, I wanted to be an artist, but I was told you couldn't make a living that way.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:23

Did you hear the same thing? Yep, unfortunately, yeah.

Miriam Schulman: 3:28

So I believe them. So I took the practical route and I went to Wall Street. But after 911 happened, I knew I couldn't go back to that world. And at first, I still didn't believe that I can make a living that way. So I painted on the side, and I was working at a gym selling personal training packages. And during that sales training, that's when I had my aha moment. I saw, Oh, these sales strategies can be used to sell anything, including art. So that was 26 years ago or so, and I've been making a sustainable living ever since. Awesome.

Laura Arango Baier: 4:09

That is awesome. And I think it's even cooler that, you know, you went the practical route and then decided, no, I can't, I can't handle this, which I think a lot of artists that have actually interviewed on the podcast have had a very similar epiphany, where suddenly there where suddenly they're like, I can't see myself. You know, living in this environment, when I have this inner creative being that really wants to come out. And I think the missing piece, of course, is the part that you mentioned, that I think a lot of people appreciate, is the money making part. Because, of course, you can't, can't eat, can't eat your paint, unfortunately. So it is good that you, you know, realize, like, Aha, you know, putting these things together that really helps to make sales. Because I think a lot of artists are very shy about selling their work, or they feel like it's somehow different from other parts. Products, which it can be, in a sense, but the strategies are basically similar, right? So that actually brings me to two questions. The first one being, when did you decide, okay, I'm going to follow the path of the artist, even before you know, you decided to take the practical route. Was it a moment in your childhood, what was it? Okay?

Miriam Schulman: 5:22

So when I felt that I was an artist was way back in the fourth grade, my fourth grade teacher, I was the new girl in school, and my fourth grade teacher made me the class artist. Now I don't know if I demonstrate was demonstrating any kind of talent back then, because my job as class artist was to glue toothpicks onto the pumpkin that was the jack o lantern, and the teacher decided what that design was. So like, clearly, did not require any talent, but her saying that to me, I chose to believe it. I chose to take on that identity. Oh, I'm an artist. Okay, yes, I'm an artist. So that's why, in my book, artpreneur, I start with the chapter choose to believe, because that's really the first step, is being able to look in the mirror and say, This is what an artist looks like, and being able to tell the world that

Laura Arango Baier: 6:21

absolutely, yeah. I think you know what? That's probably one of the hardest hurdles for some people, is them, you know, feeling like, oh, is it safe for me to label myself this? Am I actually an artist? And I myself, have also struggled with that as like, am I? But am I? And I think that, yeah, changing that mindset into Yes, this is what I am. And I can, you know, I mean, I can have a side job and still be an artist, right? Like, at the core, it is what you are, right?

Miriam Schulman: 6:50

It's that same moment in Harry Potter when Hagrid says you're a wizard, Harry so it's like, oh, I'm a wizard.

Laura Arango Baier: 6:57

Okay. Oh, that's a great comparison. I love that. Yeah, no, it's for sure. That's the first hurdle. And then, actually, I wanted to ask you also, because since you went through this, you know, these stages of like, okay, I'm side job figuring stuff out. When did you realize? Okay, I want to help other artists figure this out too.

Miriam Schulman: 7:22

Okay, so I started my coaching practice in 2019 so that was a good 19 years of being a sustainable artist. Because I know I get a lot of snark on social media when people see my ads for coaching, they're like, Oh, another artist who couldn't make a living and now is teaching No my friend. I'm 57 years old. I've been doing this a very long time, but even before I started coaching other artists, I was doing it kind of for free, meaning, not my art for free, but giving people advice for free. So I wanted to be in masterminds with other artists. I would create these mastermind groups, but I ended up being their free coach. So my first step was not actually to start a coaching program. The first thing I did was actually put together the podcast. So I was giving advice, still giving advice for free. But then people started to ask me, oh Miriam, please coach me. Please take my money. Please become an artist, business coach. So I was following what my intuition, what the Muses in the world, what the universe was telling me,

Laura Arango Baier: 8:34

that's awesome. And yeah, there are a lot of naysayers out there. I feel like there's this horrible thing that people say or like, Oh, those who can't do teach, which I think makes absolutely no sense, because no, almost every single artist I've interviewed has taught workshops or has taught other students, or has taught, you know, in some sense, whether it's business, whether it's painting, portrait, etc, it's no it's another source of income. And it's really sad that teaching kind of gets so devalued into a stage of like, oh, you're not you're not real. It's like, no, actually, in order for you to be able to teach, you have to be the legitimate thing. Otherwise you can't. And then people would notice, right? So yeah,

Miriam Schulman: 9:17

I mean, there are plenty of coaches sometimes I stumble upon who are giving really bad advice because they didn't do the thing first. I was like, and so sometimes I'll do a whole YouTube episode. I won't say Johnny so and so, I'll just say, Oh, I saw this video, and the advice is really bad. And let me just tell you how it really works.

Laura Arango Baier: 9:39

Yes, yeah. And I think that's one of those interesting thing that's that's happened with the internet, which we will talk more about the internet in a bit, which is, there's just so much information out there, and there are so many people who are doing the fake it till you make it type of thing, to the point where they're even when they make it, they're still faking it. They haven't actually learned anything. And I think that's yeah, that gives a bad rep to the people who do know, yeah, do want to help? Yeah, yes, but yeah, at least, at least we can vouch for a fact that you know you do have your book has incredible tips. It's very inspiring from what I've seen, and of course, on your website, you do have the first chapter available for anyone who's interested in reading, which is really cool. I wanted to ask you also, because obviously, everything that you've written in your book, and everything that you've taught it has to be based on your own experience, your own mistakes, or, you know, any past one where you're like, Oh man, I wish I'd known this. Let me help people so that they don't make that same mistake. What would you say is the most common mistake that a lot of artists make when they're trying to make a living? Okay?

Miriam Schulman: 10:52

Yes, I am going to answer that, but I also want to make sure the listeners know how to get a free the free chapter of my book, so I know everything's linked in the show notes, but if you're driving Shulman Art com slash, believe you can get chapter one absolutely free. Okay, so the biggest mistake people make is they believe that cheaper is easier to sell. I believed it too, like when I first started out, when I was doing my portraits, I didn't know what to charge. I looked around, what are other people charging and then I charge less because I wanted to be affordable and I thought I was just starting out. No, not a good idea. Think, if you think about it from the customer's point of view, think about from yourself. Let's just think about yourself. Are you going around looking for the cheapest vet for your puppy? Or kitten? No, no. If you're, what do you have? Laura, do you have a pet? I do not so sad. Okay, well, dog, yeah, okay, so our listeners do though they have fur babies. So if you're, if your fur baby needed surgery that cost $2,000 and you have some sort of cream or neighbor down the street or down the hall, depending whether you live in an apartment or, like I do, or wherever, and they said, Oh no, I know a guy who can do that same surgery for you for 200 bucks. No, you're not doing that. You don't, because it's a, it's It's trust. Is this for real? So money is one way to signal to people that you're for real. And I had this experience actually on the other side, because I do collect art, there was an artist who I follow I really like, and they had their art for sale during Black Friday, and they they said it was an original painting for$1,000 and it was big, and they had it on sale for 750 and I kept sending her emails. It was like, Is it a print? Is it an embellished print? I ended up buying it. But even after I got it, I was like, looking at it. Did she fool me? Is this really hand painted? So it's not a good idea to undersell your services. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 13:08

And also, I think, I think it's because there's two things that get really confused there, right? We have this, this sort of thought of, like in the regular market, right? You would think, Oh, you have, like, this loaf of bread and this loaf of bread and, like, one's a little bit cheaper. I'll take that, but that's, you know, obviously you have tons of options of bread, and

Miriam Schulman: 13:28

they're all, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, that's if you're choosing between petridge farm and wonder bread. Okay, exactly. But if you have a loaf of bread from petridge Farm, petridge, how do you say it? I have audiological processing, so whatever Wonder Bread, Wonder Bread, and it's whatever, it's $3 for the Wonder Bread. But then there's a bakery where it's freshly baked and it's $12 yes, it's more expensive, but what's going to taste better? What are you going to slice up and serve to you know, when you meet whatever, when you have your boyfriend's parents over for the first time, you know, like there's, are you going to serve them wonder bread? Or are you going to serve them something from a fake or eight or if you're bringing a loaf of bread over to somebody's house because you're a guest, are you going to bring a loaf of Wonder Bread? Never, never. No, you will. You will spend $12 or$20 I don't know what the loaf of bread costs. I forget. I don't like pay attention, because I want the loaf of bread from the bakery.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:33

Yes, yeah, exactly. I mean, you're paying for the quality, and not just the quality that's for. Also, like, okay, that Baker had to study that.

Miriam Schulman: 14:42

It's not even that. It's it's not, it's not even that. See, that's thinking of somebody who's a seller. Oh, you're paying for their education. No, as a consumer, I don't care how long the baker took to learn his craft. I care about what my mother in law is going to think, or the people I'm bringing the. For bread over I'm thinking about the experience

Laura Arango Baier: 15:03

that makes sense. That makes sense, yeah, I mean, I'm thinking also from the perspective of the artist, right? Because and this kind of ties back into the imposter feeling of like, oh, but am I an artist? Can I sell my work? It feels icky, right? It feels wrong to sell my work for so and it's like, yeah, but you have years of experience, you have all of these amazing paintings that you can make that you know someone out there is totally gonna love, right?

Miriam Schulman: 15:33

Yeah, I get that. There's that feeling. And you know what? You don't have to sell your work. You don't have to. You can be a hobby artist. Totally fine. It's totally out. But if you want to make a living from your art, you got to get over that feeling. So I was coaching an artist. I'm going to shout her out, Megan Mayberry, she does these amazing headdresses. So she's in Galveston, Texas, which is like, it's like New Orleans as far as Mardi Gras and headdresses go. And when she first started coaching with me. She was telling me how she set up a booth, and she was letting people try on the their headdresses. I was like, Well, were you selling it? Were there any price that? No. And I said to her, Listen, every time you show up, there needs to be a shopping opportunity. And I was very hard on her, and she was very upset. But now fast forward, six months later, she'd made $30,000 in six months from her headdresses, but she said that was one of the most important lessons, was that everything is a shopping opportunity, and she has very, very creative ways of making it not feel icky to her or her customers, to make it feel like an experience. So for example, this January, she had a first cake night. So that first slice night, which is something I'm not as familiar with, Mardi Gras and those traditions. I don't know if you are Laura, but this is like a thing, like the first cake, King's cake, or something like that. There's like a little baby in the cake. Is that it okay? Yeah, I have no idea so, but she invited bakers. It did a whole she did this whole thing, and it was just like, and she made 1000s of dollars with her headdresses in a week. But she made this experience because high end buyers want that experience. So it's the experience, not the transaction, that's going to matter. So yes, you do have to feel uncomfortable, but your success is on the other side of that discomfort. Totally.

Laura Arango Baier: 17:34

Yes, and that is a good point, because one of the comparisons that I've also heard is, you know, art comparing artists to luxury brands, because luxury brands also, they provide experience, right? Some, some really high end stores, you have to make an appointment to even be able to go in and look at their their purses or their shoes, and then they have, like, the really special catalog that only specific collectors get to see and they get to see it before everyone else, like, they have a bit of a tier system that I think a lot of artists don't consider because, you know, we're so used to seeing like, very normal like online shopping, or shop now, or like sale and all of these things that we don't realize that. Yeah, I mean, if, if you want to sell to the people who really care about your work and who see it for what it's worth, you also have to see your own work in the same vein, right? You have to see its own worth as well. Yeah, yes. And speaking of the internet, I think that's been one of the biggest things for artists, especially in the last 26 years since, of course, before that, it was mostly galleries. Even in the early 2000s It was mostly galleries that were the quote, unquote gatekeepers, or like the ones who really call the shots. But now, with internet marketing, the internet internet you can sell through your website, it's become a bit of a email marketing sort of situation that is what seems to help artists all the most, at least from what I've heard from multiple guests that I've had. Do you mind telling us a bit more about what are some of the best ways for artists to start collecting emails or start building a list. Maybe you know they're starting from zero.

Miriam Schulman: 19:25

Yeah, okay, the number one way it sounds. It's gonna sound so boring, but this is the number one way. Okay, I'm gonna model it for you. Hey, Laura, I have a show coming up. Would you like me to send you an invitation? Yeah, sure. Okay. What's your email address? That's it. That's it. That's, that's how it works, okay? Or the other way is, you don't have a show coming up, and Laura says to me, Miriam, where can you see, where can I see your art? That's, that's a very common question art as well. Get, they'll either get, where can I see your art, what's your gallery? And a lot of artists freeze thinking they're not legit. They don't have a gallery. That's not true. That's not where that that question is coming from, by the way, they just want to know how to follow up with you. Okay, where can I see your art, what's your gallery? Or the third one is, do you have a card? They don't actually want a card. By the way, they don't want a card. So all three of those questions are an excuse for you to say, I would love to make sure you're invited to my next show. That doesn't mean you have a show on the calendar. You will someday, and then you get their email address. That's how it works. That's it. That's the best way, really. I mean, there's other ways too, but that's, that's the easiest and the best way?

Laura Arango Baier: 20:46

Yes, yeah. And I've also heard that it also helps to do it in person, you know, like, collect family, friends, you know, people who are closest to and then from there to start branching out. If you go to a show, if you go to, like, an opening of some sort, which Funny enough, you know, for a career that's actually it seems like a very solitary one being an artist, since you're in your studio, it's actually very, very, very much dependent on networking and on, you know, talking to people, which is amazing.

Miriam Schulman: 21:16

Yes, however, this is a yes. And since many artists are introverts, and they get very nervous when they hear that these are usually one on one conversations which introverts thrive in. This is not you getting up on a stage. This is not public speaking. They are always one to one interactions. So if we talk about building our audience, there are three ways, and only three ways to build your audience, and the first one you hit upon Laura, which is your universe? So your your universe starts with friends, family, co workers, people you went to high school with, anyone you come into contact with, in person or online. That's your universe, okay. The second way are other people's universes. That's what I'm doing right now. Today. I'm on the on the on the podcast, talking to Laura's audience. So that is another way it's so other people's and by that, I'm not talking about paid advertising, advertising. I'm talking about free publicity. And a lot of my artists, especially ones who live in places where there's not a lot of people. Like, I have an art client, Elizabeth mordensky, who was living in Montana. She's like, Well, how do I do this? I was like, well, you get get some publicity. She got a article in art collector magazine. It led to $29,000 in repeat art sales, and lots of artists, lots of examples, over and over again, getting it through publicity. And then the third way is paid advertising, but that is for fine artists, not as effective actually, as the first two methods, which is good news. So it's not something that you have to do.

Laura Arango Baier: 23:03

Yeah, that's very good news, because oftentimes those paid advertisements can be so expensive, it's so unreachable for a lot of people. And it's like you said, it's not even as effectively. It doesn't really seem to work. Like I've seen people who, for example, they'll advertise on like Facebook or Instagram, and it's, it's so, like, I would say maybe, like, one or 2% actually, is the conversion that I've noticed, at least from, you know, what friends have told me in terms of selling paintings, it's really hard, because I think a lot of people are also becoming very disenchanted with The targeted ads that keep popping up on social media. Like, I think everyone's really tired of that they're looking really for like, that authenticity of like, oh, this is a human being who isn't outwardly trying to sell me things. You know.

Miriam Schulman: 23:53

Well, the thing is, is that if you're putting artwork in front of people, what collectors want is meaning not medium, and they want the connection to the human who has made the art. So that has to come first, and that's why the advertising is so difficult, because it's very hard for you to get to know them through an advertisement

Laura Arango Baier: 24:22

at BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H. Show.com The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The Art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast. That's F, A, S, o.com, forward slash, podcast, yes, yeah, it feels like a mask and like, Yep, it immediately scares people away. For sure they can.

Miriam Schulman: 26:11

I just want to put a caveat in there, because a lot of people have found me for my business coaching. And before I did business coaching, I did online art classes, they have found me through through the ads. But that was never taking someone from an ad to a purchase. It was usually an ad to a free experience, kind of like how a bakery gives give you a little piece of of of like cookie at the counter, and then maybe you'll buy the cookies, so giving them a free taste of that before they get the whole thing. So it's really that relationship piece still has to come in the middle before you make the sale.

Laura Arango Baier: 26:55

Yeah, that's a really good point. I think that also works really well with, you know, marketing on, not directly marketing, but just putting stuff on YouTube, or teaching free tips, or teaching, you know, or just, oh, if you like, sign up here. You get a free you get a postcard of one of my paintings, you know. Or if you really want to go old school, but it is, it's true because it it shows more like, oh, like, I don't want anything from you directly. Just look at my stuff, and then from there, it feels like a lot easier if someone does want the stuff to go for it, yeah. So if someone already has like, a good number of, like, email signups, right, what would you say is the next best thing to do with that list?

Miriam Schulman: 27:45

Okay, so here's the problem with a lot of artists, either they don't have an email list, which we've kind of talked about, we didn't really talk about that actually, why you need an email list rather than social media? We can't Okay, so when I wrote artpreneur, I was talking mostly about email, and my editor said, Oh, she's in her 50s. I guess she's old fashioned and doesn't believe social media. I was like, Oh no, my friend, I'm way ahead of you. People who still think social media works are the ones who are a little bit behind. So when I wrote my that, when I wrote the book, when the editor gave me that the average engagement rate on Instagram was 1% which is still low, but not as low as it is now. So 1% is one out of 100 or 10 people out of 1000 by the time I went to edit that chapter to make a bigger case for why social media is not as effective as email, it had dropped to 0.6% and now that we're in 2026 the average is 0.36% and It's not 0.36% for artists, it's 2% for colleges and sports teams, the average for everybody is point three. 6% for most artists, it's more like point one or point two. So that's one person out of 1000 people. What is an engagement that means they're either DMing, you liking or commenting, and yes, somebody commenting saying, is this available as an NFT, which is a scam, also counts as that very low engagement rate. So now that we've discussed about that, you compare that to email. Email has a 24% open rate, so you would need 6000 followers on Instagram to get the same engagement as only 100 people on an email list. Let that sink in, 6000 100 that's why it's so much easier to build a business using email marketing than social media.

Laura Arango Baier: 29:58

Yeah. Yeah, not. It makes perfect sense, I think, because it takes, it's so much more trouble, quote, unquote trouble, right? It takes more steps to sign up for someone's newsletter or sign up for their blog or, you know, email updates, because you have to actually have interest. You have to go on their website. You have to type in, you know, your email. In some cases, you get an email back saying, Hey, you have to confirm that you're signing up for this. And those are all these extra steps that really make you know this person is dedicated to this, instead of just looky Lou, who's just scrolling, or even, you know, mindlessly, just not even paying attention to what they're looking at.

Miriam Schulman: 30:39

Okay, so let me answer your question once you have so we said, so the biggest mistake I say that people, they either don't have an email list, but the next biggest problem is they have an email list, but they're afraid to use it. Those are the artists who think that email is bothering people. So they said, Well, I only send four emails a year or once a month, which is better, but you don't treat Instagram that way. You would never only post four times a year on Instagram. So why are you? Why are you treating email that way? The way I like to help artists see how important it is, is someone who's your email subscriber, is like your friend. Could you imagine if, or like a boyfriend or girlfriend, if, if a guy was interested in you and said, What? What's your your phone number, and you gave him your phone number and he took three months to call you? Well, that's what you're doing when somebody gives you the email address and it takes you three months before you send an email. That's not a nice way to treat somebody.

Laura Arango Baier: 31:50

That's an interesting perspective on that, yeah. I mean, they care enough to like want to know more, right? So it's good to nurture that,

Miriam Schulman: 31:59

and you want to show them that you do what you say you're going to do. That's the first step of trust. We talked about trusting people online. We're in a trust recession. You got to build that trust. Part of that trust is starts with doing what you say you're going to do.

Laura Arango Baier: 32:15

Yes, yeah, huh? I'm like, mentally jotting down, like, Okay, I know what I'm going to do next, so that's awesome. So now that we're actually, since you mentioned timing, what would you say is probably more or less a really good average for, like, sending out newsletters, or like,

Miriam Schulman: 32:37

every single week, and don't call it a newsletter. Okay, people don't even want newsletters. I've heard some people recently say, oh, newsletters are back. No, they're not. Nobody wants a newsletter. Write an email as if you're writing to a friend. Write an email the same way you would be writing an Instagram post when you do a newsletter. That's very early, 2000s you know, of all the different sections all and what it is is that you're not sending a lot of emails, so you're trying to get everything in to that one email. But people, again, they're only opening 25% of your emails. So even if you did send an email four times a month, every single week, maybe they're only opening one because it's 25% okay, but don't put so much pressure on yourself that everything has to be in that one email. And let's talk about one more thing, about why I'm such a big believer in email. So when you post something on Instagram, we talked about the engagement rate. The algorithm decides if somebody is going to see it an email, the person who you're sending to, they decide if they're going to open the email or not. So you have some control over that. Did you write a good subject line? Do you write good emails? So if you write good subject lines, that makes them want to open it not. Laura Studio News, I hope that's not you. Laura, no, I know it's I know it's some listeners, though I'm so sorry listener, I am so mean, and it's my job to be mean to you and tell you what's real. If you're sending every month, February news, March news, nobody wants to open that. If it's if it's Jack's Studio News is your subject line every single time, nobody's opening it. And once people stop opening it, what's going to happen to that email? It's not going to land in their inbox anymore.

Laura Arango Baier: 34:42

It's gonna go to spam or they unsubscribe. It

Miriam Schulman: 34:46

actually probably will go to spam because that like Gmail will say, Oh, they never, you know. Miriam is never opening this. And it starts you have, sometimes things start showing up in a spam folder instead of your inbox, even things you want to get that's something.

Laura Arango Baier: 35:00

Happens, yeah, yeah. And it's sad, because it's like, Oh, I do care about this. I just haven't had time to read it, or haven't, like, opened them in a while, right? Life? Yeah, interesting, yeah. Um, I mean, weekly, that's pretty intense. But I love, I love the tip of, like, you know, writing it as if you're writing to a friend and not like, I think a lot of artists are very much like how you said, like, early, 2000s geared for like newsletter. This is what's going on in my life. This is what happened. These are the awards I got.

Miriam Schulman: 35:30

And, yeah, no, no, you don't want that. Nobody wants that. I don't

Laura Arango Baier: 35:32

think they care. Yeah, I've actually had a lot more replies and hits on like blog posts that I just, like, announced and like, in an email, like, oh, new blog posts, and then it just shows, like, part of it, and then they can read the rest on my website. And I think that's that's done much better since it is a much more honest, like direct like, Oh, this is this, is this, and these are my thoughts on this. Yeah, that's really cool. And then, since we're also touching a little bit on social media, because it's become, gosh, I miss the old Instagram, probably as much as all the artists from like 2016 to 2020 do. Since we know that Instagram is, you know, kind of going downhill and you can, you can feel free to explain a little bit more about you know why you think that is? What are some of the other platforms that you would recommend for artists to pursue instead of our old friend Instagram?

Miriam Schulman: 36:32

Yeah, it's not that Instagram is being mean to us. It's just it's not possible for Instagram to show us everything that we're following. You know, I know I have, I'm following like 800 accounts. There's, there's no way I could keep up with that. That would be a full time job. So it's not just big bad, Instagram's fault. I think the two best platforms to be on right now are LinkedIn in YouTube with giving an edge to LinkedIn. For artists, especially the only place that YouTube is better for artists, if you art teaching, it's hard for artists not to lapse into art speak on YouTube and turn it into a tutorial. And that's not going to drive art collectors to you, so you have to be very careful and intentional about the kind of content you post on LinkedIn. People have jobs, and I do know a lot of artists who are doing very well there. So one of the case studies to talk about is Casey Lynn Hancock. Have you heard of her? So she sells paintings between 35,000 and 100,000 Yes, that's each on LinkedIn. It takes her a few months before she sells it, but that's worth it. Just have to sell two of those a year. Yeah?

Laura Arango Baier: 38:01

So, because it is so I've of course, used LinkedIn in the past, and probably not as much as someone who has a regular corporate job, but in terms of, like using it as an artist, what's like, an example of a post that someone can make would be treated like Facebook or Instagram

Miriam Schulman: 38:20

in that sense, yes, but okay, so Instagram tends to be a little bit more confessional. I wouldn't be as confessional on LinkedIn as maybe Instagram is, but much of the content you've posted in the past on those other platforms are it's exactly the same thing they like, videos, pictures of your art in progress, your values, pictures of you working your studio pet, all those things, of course, you don't have a studio pet, maybe your studio goldfish, I don't know. Yes, yes, yes. All those things, behind the scenes content, but you want to make it behind the scenes content that's interesting to collectors, not other artists, so not, Oh, I couldn't decide whether to use Payne's gray or whatever, and this is how I saved my painting. That's something artists care about. Behind the scenes content for collectors, it's a different flavor so they want. It's like the difference between knowing how the sausages are made, that's what artists care about, versus what's the speech that the waiter gives when he's telling you the specials. That's like what a collector wants. It's like the magic.

Laura Arango Baier: 39:43

Yes, it's like what you said earlier, like the experience attached to the painting, or the creation of whatever it may be, versus, yeah, no, I totally get that. And that's so funny, because it is true. Whenever I look at, you know, my followers, for example, on Instagram, I would. Probably estimate that 80% are other artists, which isn't a bad thing, of course, because sometimes artists like to swap, right? Like, oh, I'll take this piece, you take that piece and like, you know, it's a trade, trade, trade off. But obviously it's a million times better when it's a collector actually buying. Well, swapping doesn't pay the mortgage. No, it does not, unfortunately. But, yeah, that's a really good point. That's a really good point. Trying to see it from the perspective of the collector is definitely important. Hey, that's really cool. And so you mentioned something about also about YouTube, like, if someone did want to pursue YouTube because people, you know, now, they're getting tired of short form content. YouTube is becoming much bigger because it's long form. People actually seek it out, kind of like how, you know, newsletters are also some emails are also some way that people like to seek artists out, or seek someone else. Yeah, what? Like, how can an artist make it work? Because you said, like, teaching, but like, what's the difference between, like, you know, the type of teaching that you mentioned, where it's, like, just tutorial, versus, you know, the other type?

Miriam Schulman: 41:11

Yeah, so I have a course I teach the audience building workshop, and in it, I talk about the two case studies. I talk about Casey Lynn Hancock with LinkedIn, I break down her strategy and the other artists I talk about is a YouTube strategy. It took me a while to find an artist on YouTube who was using it not for to sell art classes, not to sell artists business coaching, but only for their art. So the artist to check out is ao Hamer. She actually has two YouTube channels. One is a little more confessional, and the other one is a little more collector focused. So you can check out what she's doing and see if you can reverse engineering and engineer it. I mean, I break it down in the class, but like to give it justice to what she's doing. It's hard for me to do that, and if, like, the time we have here,

Laura Arango Baier: 42:07

yes, awesome. Yeah. Well, that's perfect, because it is. I have obviously, like, looked at other artists like YouTube's, and it's always a little bit like, oh, you only have, like, they only make, like, maybe a little bit of side income from YouTube. And YouTube, of course, can be lucrative. Okay, use it, right?

Miriam Schulman: 42:25

Let's break that down. Okay, so one thing that, and I also have some podcasts, which no one has to pay for, that you can link to in the show notes, where I interviewed ao hammer about her YouTube strategies. And we also we did two of them because we talked about her Patreon strategy, just a separate one. So most of her income is not from the YouTube ads. She does make some she also makes some money from Patreon, but the biggest driver for her is because that platform allows her to connect with her collectors on that level where they feel like they know her, and that makes them want to buy her art. It also has led to brand partnerships. So you can check out those two videos, video slash podcasts.

Laura Arango Baier: 43:18

Yeah, yeah. I will definitely link those and I will listen to them, because I think that's, you know, being an artist today. Think it's very much you wear all these hats. You know, you're like the one man band, or one woman band type of situation where you have to do all the things. And, of course, passive income and, like, getting really good leads to sales, I think are so, so so valuable. Because if you have all your eggs in one basket, like, if an artist only works with a gallery and they've never, like, done their own marketing, and that gallery goes bust, you're kind of starting from scratch, right? Whereas, if you know you have a little bit going on in different platforms, and you make sure that you're organized about it, you're taking care of it, if a gallery that you're working with goes bust, you're not necessarily as like scrambling for, oh no, how am I going to pay, you know, my bills this month, you know. And then I wanted to ask you also, in your experience, right? Obviously, you know, you have some really great insights, you know, in your podcast episodes about some of the strategies that you can employ. But what would you say are some of the like, say for YouTube, like, what's like the best strategy for someone to, like, get a collector through there or LinkedIn?

Miriam Schulman: 44:38

Okay, so, like I said, it's a slow burn on LinkedIn. It takes Casey months. But this is no different than what I've always experienced in my 25 years of being an artist. It can take up to six months between when somebody hands me their email address at a fair and then. Or they purchase off of an email, and that's with me sending emails every single week, so it can take that long to build that relationship. But the point of the email, it's not to get an email from every person every single time. It's to remind them that you exist, so that when they're ready, you're there and you're in front of them. Think about the things that you buy off of email. I don't know about you, but I I've been very guilty of doing a lot of shopping lately. It's just too easy. It was the holidays too. It was like, it's way too easy, but half the time it's because I get an email. Oh, you like press on nails? Did you look at the wicked press on nails? Well, no, I didn't, but now I will. Oh, it's January. Do you see these white frosted press on nails? No, but let me add that to my cart. Oh, and here's something else you might like. So it's because they sent an email that reminds me. But then there's other things I buy less frequently, and it just reminds me that they exist, so that when I'm ready to buy XYZ thing, a Kate Spade handbag, whatever it is, oh, okay, that's what I'm going to go

Laura Arango Baier: 46:14

to Yes, yeah. And you actually just reminded me because another platform that I think is very underrated, and I don't know if you've heard too like much about it, and I actually didn't even send it in my notes, but it just came to mind, is Pinterest? Have you heard much at all about Pinterest? And okay, yeah.

Miriam Schulman: 46:31

So here's the thing about Pinterest. Pinterest is like a database. It's SEO search, so it helps Google find you. So that's the reason for pinning on Pinterest. It's not for the end user who is looking like that's how it used to be. You know, people looking for recipes or people looking for ideas. It's more of the search helping the search engines find you. And that's why YouTube is so good, is because Google owns YouTube,

Laura Arango Baier: 47:01

exactly, yes. Okay, that's, yeah, that's interesting. That's really cool. But then, in that case, do you think artists should, like, totally abandon Instagram, or is it

Miriam Schulman: 47:13

I didn't say that? Oh no. That's

Laura Arango Baier: 47:15

actually a question that I'm having because I'm at, I'm close. It's, it can be such a,

Miriam Schulman: 47:20

okay, this is what you should this is what you should abandon posting regularly. What you want to do is have nine pillar posts, nine posts that are pinned to the top, so that when somebody lands on you, because they're they see your art in a gallery, they hear about you, and they check you out that they can see those nine posts at the top of your feed that in each one has a purpose of what it's going to do, and you can refresh those nine pillar posts periodically, but yeah, move away from being the content machine for Mark Zuckerberg. Not good for you. Yes, and that's people had art careers long before Instagram came along,

Laura Arango Baier: 48:02

yeah, yeah. And that's, that's exactly what I was, you know, wondering, because it has become, and I've, I have so many great friends and so many awesome friends who are content creators, quote, unquote, or who are artists, and they're all experiencing the same exact burnout, which is why I say, like, Oh man, I'm so close to just closing Instagram and, like, never opening it again. But at the same time, it is a place where I DM my friends, and it's still the place where, like, I connect with oh so and so was doing this last weekend, and that's so cool, you know, like, it's still a bit of that personal sense. But at the same time, it just feels like, oh, so

Miriam Schulman: 48:42

put the same energy that you used to put into Instagram, into sending an email every week, and you'll be more successful.

Laura Arango Baier: 48:51

That's good to know. That's good to know. I think that takes so much pressure off. I think for our listeners, anyone out there who is, you know, panicking about regular posting, or posting multiple times a day, which is something else that I keep hearing, and it just, it sounds like torture.

Miriam Schulman: 49:06

Yeah, I just want to say something else about that. I'm not just speaking from my experience. So since I've been coaching other artists, I can tell you about the other artists, what the experience I've had. One of my clients is Lynn Samus, and the year before she came to work with me, 2023 she had made $13,400 from sales of her art through galleries. In 2024 the year she was working with me, she made over $90,000 from her art. But here's the reason I'm bringing her up, her most successful month was August of 24 she made over $20,000 that month, and that was the same month that her Instagram account got hacked. So her success did not depend on Instagram. I have lots of stories just like that, so not necessarily. They got half the month their most successful month, but basically how email marketing made a huge difference for them. I've gotten many artists over that six figure mark, and it's not about becoming a better real creator, or creating a carousel or creating stories that's exhausting.

Laura Arango Baier: 50:17

Yeah, yeah. Because again, like, it's what I said, being a one person band, being video editor, recorder, music picker, because, oh no, it's copyrighted. I can't use that song, right? There's so much that goes into just creating the content that you know, like 80% of the hard work, which is making the painting, becomes, suddenly becomes, like, the 20% of importance of the whole thing, which really sucks, because making the painting itself is the hard part for a lot of artists. So to add on top of that, just like all of the Toots and whistles and all these things are like, Oh, I gotta record, and I gotta do this, and I gotta it's exhausting, so it's good to know that you don't have don't have to, you don't have to do that. Can go nice and slow and build a list over time of people who actually care instead of trying to scream into the void of Instagram, as I like to say, awesome. Yeah. Well, this, this has been a really productive not just for me, hopefully for our listeners too. Conversation. Do you have any final advice for someone who wants to make a living as an artist?

Miriam Schulman: 51:30

Yeah, so I want to end our conversation today with the same way I ended my book artpreneur, and that is, keep marching forward. There's gonna be many times where you think you're doing all the things and you're still not getting the results you want. But if you keep putting one foot in front of the other and not blaming your boots, what do I mean by that? Don't blame the circumstances. It's not the economy. It's not keep keep marching, put one foot in the front of the other if you're going in the wrong direction, the only way you'll know is if you keep on walking, and then you can always turn around and go in a different direction. But if you're just standing there spinning, you're not going to get anywhere. So keep marching forward.

Laura Arango Baier: 52:09

Oh, I love that. Yeah, it's very easy to get paralyzed with the fear of all the possibilities, especially, you know, when you're an entrepreneur, an entrepreneur, you see all the possibilities, and then suddenly you're like, oh no. Like, oh no, like, I don't know which way is the quote, unquote right way to go. It's like analysis paralysis, but yeah, just picking one thing going forward and then seeing how it works, I think that's definitely takes a huge load off for a lot of people, including me. Oh man. And then where can people go check out your artwork and your services and your awesome book?

Miriam Schulman: 52:45

All right, well, if you like what you heard today, there's more of that at the Inspiration Place, both on podcast and YouTube form. I'd love to give you a free chapter of the book. Shulman Art com, slash believe if you do buy the book, though, we have a whole bonus package for you, so you can check that out. Artpreneur book.com, awesome.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:09

Well, thank you so much, Miriam for all of these awesome tips. I was taking down a good amount of notes because I'm also ready to just focus on the things that actually work, and I hope our listeners will too. So thank you, all right.

Miriam Schulman: 53:24

Well, thanks for having me today, Laura, of course.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:27

Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you've enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.