David Griffin: 0:00

I don't know that art is supposed to be fun. I think it's supposed to be purposeful. I think we have joyful moments, but I think the struggle is what makes our art better. So if anyone's listening out there about at the beginning stage or even intermediate, pursue your own heart. Somebody says, Be true to yourself. I think that's a trite statement, but you, that's where your voice is going to come from, inside you, not outside you. It's going to come from the whispers inside you.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:36

Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors of old brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. In our final episode of the year, we sat down with David Griffin, a fine artist with a love capturing the nostalgic scenes of his childhood. David shares his journey from pre med student and college baseball player in Lubbock, Texas to becoming a successful illustrator and later a fine artist rooted in realism and storytelling. He recounts formative experiences at the Illustrator's workshop in New York. His years sharing a Dallas studio with top illustrators and the lessons they taught him about composition, narrative and creating a place for the eye to rest. David explores how memory, truth and heritage, big skies, ranch, life and family artifacts shape his work and give it emotional honesty. A major focus is David's new long term project, the art of wandering, where he will document how mental and physical wandering with a sense of wonder leads to ideas large paintings and deeper relationships with collectors and fellow artists. David also dives into the idea of art as a lifelong calling, discussing struggle, hard work versus talent, the trap of imitating others and the importance of finding one's own authentic voice by pursuing one's own heart. David closes by reflecting on art as a conversation without words, his hope that truthful work outlives artist and his gratitude for the creative community and opportunities ahead. Welcome David to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?

David Griffin: 2:24

Oh, I'm wonderful. This is a real pleasure and an honor for me to be invited to be with you, and thank you for including me in this.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:33

Yeah, of course, I'm so excited to talk to you, because the moment I saw your work, I had so many words come to mind. I had this feeling of expansiveness, feeling of this beautiful play of focus, texture, color, light, especially you have one painting that I couldn't stop looking at. I can't remember the title, but it's this beautiful, shaded sort of landscape with a canyon in the back, and the only thing that really lights up is the top of the canyon. And I think that painting it is so fun to look at.

David Griffin: 3:12

Well, thank you that those happen, those accidents, those happy accidents, happen when you wander around, which we'll get to in a little bit. But well, thank you for that. That's a kind and that affirmation, as we talked about before, will now last me for about three weeks. So that's the energy from this whole process is going to be a lot of a lot of giddy up in my day. Give me a lot of giddy up in my day. Anyway, that's a that's some West Texas slang for you. We'll just start out with that. And people always ask me, when I'm other places in the country, where are you from? This it happened, oh, multiple times. I'm in the Coors show coming up in January that's coming up, 2620 26 January the seventh is the opening. But so those people would come from all over the country to the show, and they would say, Well, where are you from? And I would always answer, well, I was born in Lubbock, Texas. I went to school at Lubbock High School and in Texas Tech. In fact, I had two teachers my I had two teachers in high school that my parents had had also as students in the same high school. They thought, Well, what your accent is so strong? So after a few years of this, I got kind of tired of answering the same question with the same answer. So I thought, well, I'll just see if I can outsmart somebody. And so the next time someone asked me, this was the next show, this was the following year. And I said, Well, I'm originally from Boston, and I lived in Boston for 45 years, and I've just moved to Texas. I. And I'm working on my Texas accent. Do you think it works? And they went, Oh yeah, it's working very well. So after about an hour, I got to feeling guilty because they took the bait and and they bit, and I felt guilty about deceiving them, so I went by, found them. I said, Look, I'm not from Boston. I've been to Boston. I love Fenway Park. I love baseball at Red Sox, but I'm not from Boston. I'm from Lubbock, Texas. They go, you completely fooled us. And to change who I am for a minute, or was for a minute. Anyway, I A that would lead me into telling you what. Maybe you would like to ask me a question and I'll answer otherwise, I'll start off and just, you know, extemporaneously speak about anything on my mind. You probably don't want that. So why don't you?

Laura Arango Baier: 5:57

Oh, no, that's totally fine. I mean, I do want you to tell us some more about who you are and what you do now we know you're from Texas and not from Boston, yeah.

David Griffin: 6:08

Well, as I said, I grew up in Lubbock, Texas, a small town. It was a small town when I was there. It's not a small town any longer, up in the panhandle of Texas, known for cotton, raising cotton, and it's, it was, it's a huge part of that economy and culture. Now dairy farming has become a real big part of but it's an agricultural city, town, neighborhood. So like I said, I was born there I went to high school. There I went to I just stayed and went to school at Texas Tech University. Back then. That's different than my children, who visited 14 colleges. It seemed like before they decided on the one they were going to go to. I didn't just decide. I just said, Well, I'll just go to tech. I'll just, you know, while I'm here, that's a good school. There's only for me to look around. So I didn't. Years later, I probably thought I should have looked around, but I didn't, because I met my wife there, and we married while we were in school, but she went to tech as well. But it was an interesting journey that I took from being what I thought I was going to start out to be. Was a doctor. So I my initial classes were, were, you know, engaged in the in the pre med area, chemistry, sciences, biology, all those things that I quickly found out, not quickly, soon enough, found out that I had no business being in no aptitude for had I had also walked on and made the baseball team at Texas Tech, so I was trying to play baseball there as well. Well, my journey to being an artist is really a path with a lot of turns and crooked paths and even wandering off into a ditch or two off the road. So about two years into college, I quickly found out, with some help of some of my instructors, that I had no business being in pre med. I'll be transparent here, and as honest as I know how to be, and that is, I flunked two classes, calculus and analytical chemistry, and at that time, this was going on in the early 70s. 1971 into the Vietnam War was raging, and it was a big thing, and you were and the draft was in full force. And so at that time, if you were not a full time student in college, meaning you had to be taking 12 to at least 12 hours that your deferment, or your your classification went from 4f to one A and and they quickly found you. So I had to make a decision from that those two grades, what I was going to do. I had, I need. I had, literally, I had about two days or three days to decide my major had to change and I had to go back and re I didn't have to re register, but I had to change my major. So I never I didn't know an artist. I didn't know anything about being an artist. There were no artists in my families, my extended families. But I always had like to draw. For some reason, I just like to doodle and draw. And I would, I could, I could make things look somewhat realistic. So I thought, well, I'll just do that. I'll just start taking life drawing classes at Texas Tech at night, I was working some during the day. I. So I started taking that, and the next thing I knew, within about a month or two, I thought, this is really something I have connected to. So from that, I just started completely over with my curriculum. And took life drawing, took some took color theory, took design, took graphic design, no illustration or no painting. Did I take? I just took the basics of design in color theory, and I had a right Cheatham was it had just come to Texas Tech. He had been walking working for Saul Bass, which is who was a big graphic designer on the West Coast. Had done a bunch of big had big plants. He was a big movie poster guy. Designed a lot of big movie posters. Frank was a really good, great teacher, and so he taught us about design and color theory. And I still use those thoughts today. This is 50 years later. So long story short, about a year and a half after that, after that change of my life, basically, one of my instructors had sent some work of mine to a what was then a brand new school up in New York. It was an illustrator called illustrators workshop in New York. It was upstate New York in Tarrytown, New York, right on the Hudson, Terry towns, famous for Ichabod, crane and Headless Horseman. So we went up there. Didn't know any of the didn't know anybody. In fact, that was my first time to New York City or even see a museum. My very first museum to see was the Metropolitan Museum in New York City as a 20 year old, 2020, 21 excuse me, didn't know anyone, so it was an Illustrator's workshop. I studied with Mark English, Bernie Fuchs, Bob peak, Robert hindale and Fred otness, and we all. We just took turns going to their studios. They would bring us projects, and we would work on and we'd go into the city to do research and come back. We took the train back and forth to Manhattan, back to Terry Kent, and for the bigger part of that summer, that's all we did was learn how to be an illustrator. And so that was my first introduction into the art world. And at that time, these illustrators were making really good money as an illustrator. They were Sports Illustrated. Was buying a lot of work, Time Magazine, Newsweek magazine, Ladies Home Journal, spending 1000s and 1000s of dollars per image, per per illustration. So I just thought, automatically. I thought, well, this is where I belong. I belong in this. This is, this is a good choice. David, well, I was by far the weakest in the class. There were 44 students, and they from all over the world, from Canada, from Germany, Europe, United States, all over Mexico, South America, South Africa. I really found out real quickly what it was to be the lowest man on the totem pole, because that was me. I did. I really didn't belong in the classes, but I was, I was so interested in learning about this so and I'm an illustrator, for about 10 years, then from about 1976 to about 86 and I, and even in that point, I had been so fortunate, really fortunate, divinely fortunate. I got, I was asked to share a studio space with what was then, who was then, he's still alive. He's one of my best friends, an illustrator, Bart Forbes and Jack Unruh had built, had bought a house just outside of downtown Dallas, and they turned it into studios. And they were two. They had their two studios, and they had an open studio, and they asked me if I would like to come in and pay rent and share a studio space with them. We had, it was wonderful. And I guess for the next 10 years, I learned so much from those guys. Not they didn't intend to teach me, but by watching them deal with clients, work with deadlines. And back then, illustration was really, basically, you got a script for a story or a novel or something, and you were going to illustrate this script, so watching them interpret verbally into visual their their their verbal vocabulary into a visual vocabulary was a huge lesson for me of learning how. And Forbes and Jack Unruh were just wonderful. They would, they would call me up into their studios and say, Hey, would you critique this illustration for me? I've got to send it to Sports Illustrated or sports or field tomorrow. It's got to go out tomorrow. But I need some I need for you to look and I'm, I am as green as SAP, green out of the tube of paint. That's as green as I was. And they were asking me their opinion. And they this was not a joke to them. They were very serious about hearing what I had to say. And I thought, my doc, no one's ever asked my opinion about much of anything, and so that made me realize that your voice did that, that the human voice and the human mind has a real valuable part of communicating to other people and Communicating in dialoguing with other people. And the one thing I learned from Jack Unruh particularly, he came up one day and he said, Look at this. And he did a lot of pen and ink and big things. He said, I want you to look at this, but I want you to tell me if there's a place for the eye to relax. And I thought, what? And I said, Yeah, over here. He said, Okay, that's so that's my first that was my one of the first big lessons was learning that a visual image had to need, or needed an area for the for the eye, the viewer, to sit metaphorically in this image and rest and take a breath and just absorb and so that I still that's one of my biggest missions, or biggest messages, is finding a place the eye to relax. So that's that's always been important to me, and it still is today. Well, I can continue, or you can interrupt me, and we can change and shift gears here, if you'd like to go in a different direction.

Laura Arango Baier: 17:15

Oh, well, I think it's absolutely fascinating, because I can definitely see the illustrative approach in terms of composition and color play in your work. And I think to me, it's very fascinating, because a lot of the type of schooling that has happened today for artists in general has shifted into the more contemporary approach of just paint what you feel you don't have to know how to paint, and that's like the majority of art schools today. But I have found that it is illustration that has really continued bearing that torch of the past realist painters, especially at the turn of the century, because, you know, realism had started to die out. You know, the Great War happened, and then World War Two, and then the Cold War and Vietnam and all these things, I think, disenchanted a lot of people, and the world shifting really made people stop enjoying realism as much. But illustration really maintained that. And I love hearing how your background. And, you know, taking this illustration workshop helped you with color composition and how to see a painting. And like you said, you know, the storytelling aspect, the turning of verbal feeling, idea, or, you know, story, into a visual representation of something. And I think that, to me, is one of the most wonderful, amazing things of illustration that I think a lot of art schools like, you know, the, I don't want to say traditional, but the more contemporary art schools, even actually the Atelier systems that are happening today are lacking. It's either pure technique or pure concept, but there's no real wherewithal of, how do I actually use these things to compose? Right? It's as if someone goes to a music school and they learn how to play the violin really, really well. They know how to play Beethoven or Bach or any of these old musicians, very, very well. But then now they go out into the world and they want to compose their own music that takes a very different approach than just knowing how to play the instrument really, really well. But all this to say that, I think it's fascinating, you know, having had the opportunity to really study illustration in a time when illustration was still very much a very wonderful career to have, before, of course, digital took over, and then all the illustrators, unfortunately had to shift gears either learn the digital. Or find a different job or become traditional fine artists, which that actually did happen a lot to a lot of illustrators, from what I've noticed. So yeah, I find that to be absolutely fascinating. And if anything, I It also makes me wonder, what does it mean to you to be an artist. Okay?

David Griffin: 20:26

To backtrack just a little bit. So those were the people, the elder, early illustrators that I I was introduced to contemporary illustration. But they all had learned some personally, but others like I had through books, paintings of the old illustrators, Howard Powell, NC, Wyeth, Frank Schoonover, well, I can just, I can go through all kinds of lists of all of them, but what they did was they had to tell a story. And so the narrative became so important. It it wasn't equal to the visual, but it was every bit almost as important. So that's what I learned about that. And so what it meant from what it means for me to be an artist, is really, there's a heritage that that I have grown up well, I have in my art career, have grown up with the heritage of telling a story. We all have a story to tell, and stories resonate with people. Visual stories have a double, twice as many, a multiplied chance of of connecting with the viewer, if the visual connects with the story, if the story is is visually apparent, then I believe, and I know this, I don't just believe it, I know it that really connects with with People. So having learned that, I saw the value in that, and so you're not that many years later, like I said, I was in Illustrator for about 10 years. Then I decided that I was really tired of being just a pair of hands. I was reading scripts. I had a overnight deadline, in some cases, to deliver something to them that they could use in a printed so you have line which I learned at a really valuable time of my career. The deadlines are important, but that also taught me how to think a little quicker. I had to make a decision. I had to do so put paint on the canvas, and that's what I learned, is is developing a storyline quickly in my head, and that words mattered, and I needed to figure out how I could visually take care of that. So what an artist means to me is that I have learned how to communicate what I think in my own life better. People that know me know that I can talk and I'm not. I don't have a problem speaking to almost anyone in one language, English, I don't I know a little Spanish, and that's it. And most of it's not to be derogatory, but most of its text message text Max Spanish, which is kind of a slang between English and Spanish. But what I learned that when I finally decided that this is what I was going to do, much to the chagrin of my family, they didn't think that. They thought art and being an artist was a hobby and could be done after hours or on weekends. This is, that's not you. That's, that's your job. And I still have friends today who say, Well, you don't work. David, you don't. You just stand up in front of an easel, eight or 910, hours a day and six, seven days a week, that's not work. Well, I would argue with most of them, but maybe all of them that it is work because painting is hard work, but being an artist to me has allowed me to communicate something that's deep in my core, from my faith, from scripture, from whatever I've grown up with, and today's the paintings that I'm producing today are, for the most part, memories from my childhood. And so I've been I've been able to become a little more aware of my heritage where I grew up, the part of com, the country I grew up with. You mentioned early on in the conversation that one of the things that that you noticed about some of my paintings were the expanse well to grow up in Lubbock, Texas. That's what I knew. Was expanse, very small horizons, big skies, big areas of just cotton farming or ranches. And we had a small ranch, a medium sized ranch, and so I knew about the concept of being a small person in a big world and in today's in my work today, I still one of the first things I think about is, can I describe the scale of what I'm talking what I'm visually talking about. Well, that's really easy for me to draw from my childhood big skies in Lubbock. You could look west or east, but most the time West, and you would see a cloud formation, and maybe a storm was coming in, and you could watch it from miles away form, get darker, darker, louder, and so that made a huge impact on me, and that was in the daytime, as well as not at night. You could hear the clouds, see em, see the lightning. All those things have become so important to to continue to speak about visually and so back to your question, what it means to be an it means that I can speak genuinely, authentically, with with some with transparency about who I am, who, where I came from, my studios this I'm in my Colorado studio today, and will be for a while, but my Texas studio, what I have is items emblematic, items of my heritage, Charit my heritage, legacy. In Colorado studio, I have my grandfather's saddle that he was a cowboy from the time he was he was abandoned at 11 by his father at 11 years old. From 11 till 22 he was a cowboy. And I have his saddle that from the matador ranch in 1916 I have, I have the saddle in my studio, and I have another saddle of my saddle in in my Texas studio, but I have hats, my father's hats, so all those things remind me of of who I am, and what I what my purpose is, what my heritage is. And I think that's so important. When I talk to young people, I say, Don't Don't forget of where you came from, because that's so important to who you're going to become, the good stuff and the bad stuff. And so I'm grounded by elements in my studios that helped me remind me of that, and it just it enhances the fact that I get to be an artist that I was, is my in my estimation, I've been called this is the one thing I can do, and if it's called talent and but it's a gift, and my intention is to be the best steward of this gift I can be. So this is a lifelong process. I don't I'll work till I can't work my I know there were artists that I've known that have worked until they no longer were breathing, and some of them were in the studio when that happened. And I hope that's what happens to me, that I'm here working on something, and it's time's up and but that will, that nothing would bring me greater joy, other than my family, than that, that I can do this my entire life and continue to learn. And that leads, I guess, to the to one of the question of questions, was what I'm doing now. And about a month ago, I had a I had a painting in a show in the idol George museum show, the quest for the West Show. And at the title of the painting was the art of wandering. And somebody commented on that and said, That's a title of a book. You that's, that's your title of your book. I know you, and you've wandered around a lot in your life, and I thought my, this is something so my, I'm in, in the new year, I'm going to it's not an announcement, but it will be promoted is for the next 1412, to 1415, months. That's what I'm going to do, is document the art of my wandering, and that's inside the studio and on location. And I mean by wandering, I mean wandering with wonder. Uh, what I've learned, the many things I've learned from many artists, valuable things that I've learned from other people was that regardless of what I think I want to paint, if I allow myself to wonder, and that means mentally as well as physically, that ideas will come from many sources, but they don't come with a with a lot of fireworks. They don't come with a blast of neon or a loud trumpet sound. They come in little whispers and little nuances of when I'm wandering around in my mind or I'm wandering in outdoors. The the art of wandering is a specific message that and any I want to document this I want to I want to document for the next 14 months, 15 months, the paintings I'm working on, what inspired me, what stopped me, what stopped me in my wandering, in my search, in my being outdoors, or in my mind wondering what stopped me. And I want to make note of that, and I want to document the paintings, and I want to talk about them in stages. So I've never done this before, but I want, I'm going to invite people into the studio and with me on location, and we'll film, and I'll, I'll interview other artists as I want to interview you, and I'll, and we'll talk about the the because I believe this is a common thread that runs through all of our lives, all of our artistic, creative lives. I think we're all looking for something, and how we look for that may be a little different, and this is not a novel idea, but it is novel for me. So I'm going to invite people to on the journey with me, this this wandering with me, and we're going to stop, and we'll be still for a while, and we'll think about things, and that's part of the wandering. You don't have to be active. Want actively wandering. You can be sitting still, wandering in your mind, wandering with wonder, is what I want to pursue. Has the world gotten so big and so complicated and so loud that we can't we can't sit still and just let our minds wander, explore with a sense of wonder, where we are. Who? How do we connect? Who do how do we connect with this, this creation? Where are we involved in all this? So that's what I'm going to do. I'm going to work on larger paintings during this next year and a half. Whatever it is. I don't have a deadline, but I think at the end of it, I'll know, and I want to pursue the idea of doing a solo show with the with these and documenting these things verbally and visually. And what, what has struck me is this will be the first time that I've ever had a body of work, extended body of work, that I that the story will hopefully will be, will be a thread through all the paintings and drawings or whatever I include in this and there'll be a narrative that will be up, down around the corner, down the stairs, up the stairs, up the mountain, down the mountain, and that will hopefully resonate with people about what it means for me to be an artist. So I'm going to pursue that with all I have and, and, and I'll, I'll bump into things, and I'll drop the ball a couple of times, and I'll wander off the I'll get off in the weeds probably, and that may be fun too, but I'm not so concerned about making mistakes, because I think as artists in my life anyway, my failures, which are many multiplied, have been the best teachers for me, so I'm not afraid of wandering off and failing and looking maybe a little foolish, because those are the times that I really learn valuable lessons about what it means to be an artist. And so I'm going to as as courageously as I can. I'm going to pursue this, probably not in a fearless manner, but as close to fearless as I can be, just continuing to walk toward my failures and seeing what I can learn from those and maybe there will be somebody in the audience, listening, watching whatever it is, maybe that'll raise. Resonate with them, and we can, we can learn about these parts of being an artist together. We can learn together. And I can learn from them, from their feedback, if they are comfortable commenting, some of them may and and I realize when you offer somebody a chance critiques, there will be critiques. And so I have to, I have to be aware and understand that that all words are valuable and they mean something. I have to figure out which ones mean something to me. And so anyway, so that's what I'm working on now, and I'm excited about doing it. I've hired a young person in the UK, as a matter of fact, and she's going to help me visually and physically move through these things with some editing and writing and other things so and I will acknowledge her skill gladly, and this collaboration will be fun, I think. But anyway, that's the that's there's some mystery in it. There's certainly some uncertainty about all of it. But I'm, I think I'm far enough in my career that I think this is what I need. I need to do this. I need to I would regret not doing it. I think so I'm going to do this, and we'll figure out what happens in the meantime. The other purpose is, is giving me a chance to connect in a different way with collectors. Galleries are important, and they have been important to me, but they don't offer the opportunity to meet and speak on an extended period of time with someone that's interested in buying your work. Most of it's done remotely. I'm not there when it happens. Shows are different matter. You can actually speak to, you know, an exhibit at a museum show or at the core show, you can actually speak to the people why they're interested? What, what, what stopped them, what connected? And that's what I really want to spend also in this art of wandering journey is hopefully being able to connect with new collectors and and establish a relationship, create an opportunity for for the collector to be part of the process of what I'm doing, not that they would tell me what to do, but I want to know what. I want to know what what made them aware of what I'm doing, what made them if it stopped them, fine. If it angered them, if it made them happy, if it brought them some peace, I need to know about all that, and the only way I can know about that is having a conversation, or some sort of dialog with them. So that's the other part of this process. Journey is I want to I want to open up that avenue of of connecting on a deeper level with the collector or the interested parties. It's just going to help me better. It's going to help me communicate better. It's going to be helped me to be a better artist. It'll probably help me be a better person. I'll I'll find out, you know, what it is that I'm doing, if it makes any sense at all to anybody, if it matters. So those are the things that I think are on my mind today and will be for a while. And isn't it wonderful for me? Isn't this such a blessing for me to be able to because you're the first one, you are the initial platform that I've been able to that I've been given opportunity to announce this new endeavor. So I'm grateful to you for the timing and for the opportunity to talk about what's on my heart today. So thank you Laura and and BoldBrush and and Faso and all the other thing, all this, this umbrella of wonderful creative people that have given me the opportunity to show my work in such a wonderful fashion. So that's it continues to be a cool collaboration from my end of the stick or my end of the bargain of surrounding myself with people that that allow me to be better at what I'm doing. So thank you.

Laura Arango Baier: 39:30

Well, thank you at BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush. And if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast. You can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast. That's F, A, S, o.com, forward slash podcast. I mean, I think if anything, We're the lucky ones too, to be able to experience a project that you are beginning that definitely means so much to you and will certainly connect with other artists who have a wandering mind and who like to wander. I, for sure, am very inspired by your project, because there's something you mentioned a little earlier at the beginning about this kind of thing that happens to some artists, which is what you think you want to paint, or what you think you want to do, versus what naturally wants to come forth. And that's actually something that I've been meditating on too. So it's very the timing is perfect for you to be mentioning these things, because, yeah, it's it's one thing to think, Oh, well, this looks fun and exciting, and it's another thing to really tune into that inner whispering voice that guides you in this gentle manner about what your calling is, which also brings me to another thing you mentioned about people thinking, this isn't a job. I think it's very funny, because a lot of people assume that being an artist is just, Oh, you just, you just hang out all day. You don't do anything, I bet you just paint like one painting in a day, and then you go to your patio and hang out. And I think a lot of people have that impression, which is so incorrect. And I agree with you that this isn't something. This is a lifelong career. It's, I like to say that this you can't retire from a calling you. It's always there. It's not something that you can just stop. You know,

David Griffin: 43:12

no, I think it's like for me and like for other creatives, this is like breathing. And that's, that's a very, maybe even exaggerated statement, but I remember I had an instructor one time, Bettina stanky, wonderful lady, wonderful painter. I mean, just wonderful person. And she said she came up to me one day we were studying, I was studying with her, and she said, Griff, I'm going to say something to you, and you're going to you, and you're going to, you're not going to understand it, but you need to starve for your work. You need to, you need to do without something for your work. And I didn't understand initially what I thought she means, well, I'll just go hungry. I won't sell anything, and I'll be I'll be homeless, or I'll be destitute, or my wife will want my wife and I'll be wandering around begging food. She didn't mean that at all. What she meant was, eventually found out you need to struggle in your work. You need to struggle with this, because otherwise you really won't struggle. Can bring out things that a comfortable comfort zone place will not. Struggling difficulties suffering will bring about things that that a comfortable calm time won't so that's what she meant. And so in good times and bad times, you and I are still artists, and whether it's Monday or it's Tuesday afternoon or 430 and Friday morning, we're still an artist. And I'm I'm not. I can't be the only one that wakes up at four in the 30 in the morning thinking that's how I fix that. Painting. That's where that's going to be. That's what I'm going to do. So it's a 24 hour occupation calling for me, and that's so important for young people to know and learn, is that they think that that success comes by. I'll do that, and they'll like my work. Well, that's the trap. It's a it's a horribly detrimental trap. So the sooner you allow yourself to be yourself and find out what's inside you, the sooner you get to be comfortable and confident in your own voice, in what you're doing, in although we are our own worst critics, the only real way to be, I think, to be a real artist is to learn what the truth is and the truth inside us. I remember seeing an interview with Andrew Wyeth one time his documentary, wonderful golly, wonderful artist, the whole that whole family from NC to Andrew to Jamie, love, all their work been inspired by all their work for on on all kinds of levels. But in this interview, he was asked, What's the most important part of his art is specifically in his paintings? And he said, memory and truth, and that was the answer to his question. And so when he said that, I started, I stopped what I was doing, and I sat down and listened, because he was going to elaborate on what those two things meant, memory and truth. So he, of course, he deals with all of his memory just as as I spoke about in my own life, but he said, I have to be truthful about this. That's the other component that's just as important as the memory. So I think that really kind of affirmed where i, where i What I was pursuing was in my own memory, and trying to be as honest as I could and authentic about that work. So his statement had a had a multiple advantage and in blessing to me, and that it kind of affirmed what I was trying to do. I think that's what we're talking about an artist's voice, and how you determine how you get to that voice. What is the path to your own you know, accomplishing that, I think again, that visual voice, your artistic voice, is a lifelong pursuit. It's it's complete. I really don't think you understand the purpose of having an artistic voice, and that is that, that it's nimble, that it's organic, and it's going to change. The voice is going to take on new, new aspects it may not change in a personal way, or personal personality way, and it may, but I think as we grow as artists, our voice is going to become more sensitive, more more aware of of of what you want to say and how to say it. So I think it's a lifelong process the voice. But I do think in the beginning we all, or at least I did, I started out thinking my voice was somebody else's work, and that's, oh, that's my voice right there. Or this guy paints cowboys. Look at that horse he painted that is beautiful, whether it was Frank Tenny Johnson or my friend Bill Anton, one of the best western artist around of all time. Bill Anton, well, I'll just do what he did, or what he's doing, or Jim Reynolds, who I studied with, and I knew horses and cattle, and I we had a ranch, so I did that. But what I think really quickly found out was it has to come from a different place. Your voice has to come from something inside you. And I spoke about this as whispers. I was looking for my voice in as if the songs that I'm looking for love in all the wrong places. I was looking for my voice in all the wrong places. Not that those artists weren't didn't respect my but, but, but they were. Their work was noticed as the standard, the very best standard, whether it's Bill Anton or Jim Reynolds or or Frank Tenny Johnson or Scott Christiansen or Eric Bowman. All. People, Logan Haji, that have stated that are contemporary and have set a standard. They've set the level the bar very high for the rest of us to pursue that same sort of excellence. And these are good men and women that Denise malkey pastel is. It's a wonderful artist. All these people have inspired me to pursue, they have pursued their own voice, and it's inspired me and encouraged me to inspire my and to pursue my own voice. So I did that years ago, and it's still being refined. But I think there is a mistake when you start out thinking that someone else's success can be transferred to you and can be transferred to your own, and you can just that. Can be your voice too. Well, that is a trap, and it's and it's, it's a trap that that's debate is really enticing. It's very, you know, oh, wow, this is fun. You know, I don't know that art is supposed to be fun. I think it's supposed to be purposeful. I think we have joyful moments, but I think the struggle is what makes our art better. So if anyone's listening out there about at the beginning stage or even intermediate, pursue your own heart, somebody says, Be true to yourself. I think that's a trite statement, but you that's where your voice is going to come from inside you, not outside you. It's going to come from the whispers inside you. And I was so grateful for so many artists that that showed me that in a very physical manner, they didn't wag their finger at me and say, Don't do that again. Don't, don't go that. They just told me by what they did, how they did it, how they pursued it. And because of that, I got to learn it at my own speed, which we all do. We all learn at different, different speeds, different times. Everybody's everybody's different. And the and the difference, the specific difference that you will bring to the art world, is what the world needs, not they don't need a copy of somebody else. They need you, your authentic self. So when I finally figured that out, things got a lot more fun for me, and I've used that word fun again, they became a lot more. I could draw from a place that I didn't have to go look for. I had it inside me. It was there, cover it. But anyway, so that's one thing about a voice, and it is important. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's probably essential. But how you get there is your your decision. But I would just, I would share that pursuing somebody else's success as your voice is not the correct way to do it, and you're going to find out the hard way that it's not the right way. So anyway, I could go on and on and on about all this, my life is an artist, because that's like I said, it's, it's, it's my life as an artist is, is I is intrinsic, intrinsically connected to my faith, to breathing, to being a human, to being to be a to be curious, to be a wanderer, all those Things are components in my life that I'm so glad great. It's it's much more it's a much more rich. It's a much richer life. If you allow yourself to wander into these areas that you were either they were mysteries to your certainty and uncertainty that you find out at the end of it, that when you get beyond the struggle, that it was worth it and you would do it again. So that's what I would be encouraged. Don't be afraid. You know, be courageous, whatever that word means in an artistic artists life to be courageous, you're going to have to put yourself out there. You're going to be you're going to be exposed, if you will, and you got to be prepared to to accept rejection is a harsh word, but there. There are going to be people that aren't as complimentary as you'd like for them to be about things you're doing, and they're they're going to find fault, or they're going to find errors, and everyone has them, and no one's work is perfect. So you have to be prepared for the comments and learn how to either learn from them or ignore them, one of the two, and probably a little combination of both. Anyway. I love being an artist. I love the life that it's provided for me, the opportunities like this today, of being included in this wonderful podcast and and the people I've met, the other artists I've met that can we? Can we can go beyond competing with each other to being to being comrades, brothers and sisters, working to pursue this a common goal, a that we all need, and that the world needs. The world needs good art. The world needs all kinds of art. Art is important. Art in music and dance, in theater and literature, poetry, painting, sculpture, that it just enriches your life if you will allow it to, if you if you will avail yourself to these things, they will. They'll return the favor. They'll return, and it'll be multiplied by what you probably what you expect. So I'm so grateful to be able to be one, the recipient of this gift, and the recipient of all the things that art brings to someone's life. Someone asked me, or I've been asked, well, if you weren't an artist, what would you do? Well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what I'd do. I guess I could. I could, I guess I could sweep up, I guess I could clean up places. I guess I could do things like that. I could be, I could be a mechanic, or I could be a welder, or I could be but it all, it would all have something creative in it. But fortunately, out of desperation, I was given a gift to be an artist, and I think that's I wouldn't trade that for anything and and I'm grateful every day that I get to do what I do, and and be a part of the the community of artists that all pursuing the same things, to trying to make give people a chance to a distraction from the noise, a distraction from the pain, distraction, you know, in a peaceful, beautiful way, you know, pursuing beauty and pursuing truth. That's what I'm that would be, if I had to put things in my in a perspective. I guess those two things would be what I would be about pursuing those two things, beauty and truth. Anyway, this is you'll you'll edit this. I will say there's one particular painting that I just finished, and it kind of talks about the conversation, and the name of the painting is conversation without words. And I've told you how important my titles are to me. That's another area of struggle. This particular painting is titled conversation without words. It's a recent painting, and I've had people comment on it, and I think that's exactly what as artists. What we do is we, we, we communicate without words. And that's the important part of my life is, is communicating without without a word, without a verbal noise. It's interesting one to speak to that about conversation without words. I had a woman call me years ago. She was pursuing a PhD at Arizona State University in music, and she called me and she said we never had met. She said she may have said, Mr. Griffin, and I don't know why she would call me that. She may hopefully she's a Dave, but she said, I want to use your painting that I have been inspired by in my PhD, in my doctoral thesis and in the jury process, I want to, I want to put your painting up for the jurors to see when I go before them with my thesis to be juried, to see if my doctorate, if I actually get the PhD. So I want to pursue and I want to get. Your permission to use this your painting as I'm playing this music. I have composed music to this painting. I have been composed the music that I'm going to use for my PhD dissertation by one of your paintings. And I thought, boy, that's you can't be you got the wrong number. You didn't Did you supposed to call somebody else? No, but so I, she sent the music to me, and her pursuit was learning how to look at a painting and hear noises, feel the heat, feel the cold, maybe the wind. You hear the noise the bird or the cricket or the or the or the twig you just stepped on walking across the field, or the the noise of an animal. And so her music was very avant garde. You couldn't it. The melody was a little bit discordant, very, I'll put it this way, you couldn't dance to it. It wasn't music. But what it did was it opened my mind up to thinking, how can I pursue a painting? How can I pursue a visual thinking about all these other senses being affected. Now, I'm not going to be able to paint something that makes somebody shiver. But I can try. I'm not going to be able to paint something that maybe feel, that they feel the wind, or they hear the wind, or they hear the bird, or they hear the animal, or they hear the noise of someone walking through wandering, the noise of wandering. But I can pursue that from a from a visual standpoint, it's not going to be a deterrent to me. It will only enhance what I'm trying to do. And so when, when I got there with that conversation and got her music, it really, it really encouraged me to think about the other parts of the visual that I can at least try to introduce, introduce those into the conversation. So conversation without words, that's important to me. That's sort of a, I guess, a mantra of mine, to have a conversation, start the conversation without any words and see where it goes. And so far, from my standpoint, I've been very fortunate that people have responded and so that so that conversation is continuing, and it will continue, and I'm so grateful that I get to continue that conversation and how I pursue this life as an artist.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:40

Yes, yes, and, and I, I am very grateful to have you on the podcast, because it's so inspiring to you know, hear someone who's painted for so long, and have this level of gratitude and openness, and there's, there's this vulnerability in your work that I think is also what really shows through that is inspiring to others as well. I think, you know, one of the reasons this woman reacted to your painting as well is there's, yeah, there's an honesty in your work. And I think that's something else that a lot of artists should pursue. Like you said, you know, with finding that truth inside of themselves, because others resonate right? There's you know, to touch on what you said earlier about pursuing someone else's success versus listening to that inner whispering that's trying to guide you somewhere. Only one of those paths is going to make a huge difference to you and create a sense of fulfillment that you are very much showing us in this interview today, which I think should be more than enough inspiration to our listeners and viewers to just, you know, wander and listen and pursue that truth and memory, like Andrew Wyatt said, because I think that, in the end, that's what really matters, and that's what we leave behind as artists. That's, you know, you look at ancient Greek sculptures, and that honesty and truth and beauty is what's left behind, yes, of that empire, of that world, of that civilization, it's always the arts that are the thing that really, I think, represent humanity, as you were saying, as well.

David Griffin: 1:04:35

Well, I think that, I think you're exactly right about that, the antiquities, we may know about their philosophy, we may know about their policies, we may know about we may but what we actually know it is what's stood the test of time, and those are the things like the arts, the sculpture, the literature. The paintings, the poetry, the music, the drama, the plays, all those things. Those are the things that speak loudly, and they're the ones that really tell the true story about the culture or the truth tellers. And so we can learn from that, and hopefully we're doing you and I are doing things that will outlive us. If they're important enough, if they're valuable enough, maybe they will. But that behooves all of us to pursue that, because it may, in fact, what someone's going to remember about you and me and other artists, they will remember our personalities if they knew us, but if they didn't know us, then, then what they're going to know about us is what we did, what we left behind and and so we have to be aware that those things need to matter, and they need to be pursued in a in with excellence, so that if, that is what's left behind, then that it speaks truth and beauty as as they as all the past parts of masterful work, from Rembrandt to Michelangelo to NC Wyeth, all of them, Just John Singer Sargent, all those people have left things behind that we're all still looking at and pursuing. So that's whether that, whether that happens with us or not. That's remains to be seen. But we should pursue it with everything we've got because of that, because of the possibility of that. So, wow, this has been fun.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:47

Yes, it has been. I mean, I could 100% listen to you all day. I'm actually a little sad having to end the episode, because it's like I said, it's inspiring to hear someone who has so much gratitude and experience and in this career, you know, it's it makes me wonder too, you know, how it feels like all of us artists kind of have this similar wavelength or frequency that we we kind of understand each other through, because I find that what you mentioned earlier as well about what would you do if you weren't an artist? That's something I've been meditating on very recently. And I just imagine nothing. I can't imagine my life without it, and it's, it's very comforting to hear you say something similar. Of I mean, you would probably figure it out, of course, because you need to live somehow. You need to make money somehow. But it just feels like this is it right? This isn't something that you can just choose to no longer do right? As I said, and as you mentioned, this is a calling and not a job, something you can't just, Okay, I'm not going to listen to the calling anymore. If you don't listen to the calling anymore, you're just going to end up very, very depressed and anxious, you know? So I think it's very comforting as well to hear you say that. So I also wanted to ask you, do you have and I know you've given us so many great pieces of advice, but do you have any final advice for someone who wants to become a full time artist?

David Griffin: 1:08:38

Well, I certainly know that struggle having gotten married in college, and the responsibility of now supporting a family we we had, we didn't have children till later, but there's an added responsibility when someone else is in the picture. So I would say that it's not an early on. It's going to be it's going to be difficult, because you're going to the time that you need to put in may be restricted, the time that you need to put in to to be able to personally accomplish the things that you want to as an artist. But I think it just it takes time. And I think the 10, 10,000 10,000 hour rule, maybe just the beginning. You know, people say, Well, you need to have it do something 10,000 hours, then you become proficient at it. I'm thinking it's 110,000 hours, not just 10,000 it's a lifetime. And I think you have to continue to think about that. This is wherever you. Are in your career, in your artistic pursuits, even if you've just started saying, Well, I'm just going to Saturday afternoon. I've got some time. I'm just going to start a painting. Wonderful. That's the best place to start. Start when you want to start and start with what you have. Start wherever you are. You're going to want to pursue and look at and and and digest and absorb as much information. Reason going to museums and talking to other art you're going to you're going to benefit by all of that. But deep down, you've got to be aware that time in, time in the studio, time on location, time with a brush on you in your hand, time on the piano, time at the top writer. I mean, excuse me, at the computer typing writing theory or writing, writing a story. It's just going to take time and you you can't. I would say it's easily. It's probably easy to, very easily to get discouraged, because you're not going to see maybe the results you want to at first, you've just got to, you've got to put it in your mind that this is a, if you can put it, is it, it's a lifelong pursuit, and that's the only real there's no easy way to do it. The path is not is not paved on a flat road for you, you don't want it to be you don't want a smooth path. That you're not going to learn on a smooth path. What you're going to learn is when it gets a little rough. So I'm not sure that answers the question. My daughter's an artist, and I had to have the talk with her, one and about the birds and the bees. It was the conversation about being an artist, and I said, if you want to pursue this, that you have to, you have to listen to that whisper. You've got to listen to that and be, be, be aware of that. If you want to do it, it's going to take time, and it's going to be and it's going to be struggles. There are going to be struggles. There's going to be people that that don't like what you do, and consequently don't translate, try not to translate. They don't care for your work, meaning they don't care for you. That those are two different things and don't connect them, because they're and we're all, we all have all connected those. Laura doesn't like that painting. She doesn't like me. That's that's not true. But we have to learn how to get around that and pursue that in a, in a, in a in an adult way, in a mature way, and say, This is what I have to do, and this is and I had to put in time, and I may have to sacrifice some time to do this, to be good at anything, you're going to have to put some time in. So I would say, and I would also say that, and I'm going to this is probably going to ruffle some feathers, but I think talent is overrated. I think I heard Chuck Close interviewed one day. Chuck Close is, was a wonderful painter did some, I mean, some really innovative things with the with the portrait, in the way he pursued that. I mean, really innovative novel, almost maybe was novel, probably is novel. But what he said was, talent is overrated. Hard work. Is what it is. What comes down to is just putting the time in and putting the work in. And you're going to hear that over and over and ad nauseam. You're going to hear it to you can't stand it anymore. It's hard work. It's just going to have to. You're going to pursue this. You're not going to you may not see the rewards. You may certainly may not see a financial gain in it immediately. But if the if the calling is honest and it's in it and it is authentic, then if you were to say, well, I can't do this anymore. I got to go do something else. There's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong with supporting your art in other with other vocations. That's we've all had to do it. Every one of us have had to do this. And there's nothing wrong with that. But if it's an honest calling, you're going to be looking for ways to come back to the studio. You you're going to be looking for ways to get on the piano. You're going to be get back to the guitar. You're going to be look. You're going to do, what you're going to find out is, no, I can't go to dinner tonight. Why? Well, I've, I've got to go in the studio, and I've got something on my heart that I have GET OUT OF MY I've got to get it out of my head and onto some piece of paper or on the canvas or something. And you're going to that's going to hit you one day, and you're going to say. No, I have to do this other thing. I have to it that sounds like a harsh and almost absolute statement, but I'm not. If you're really called to be an artist and you're going to there are going to be times when you say, No, I can't do I have to go into the studio. I've got to go out on location. I got to go sit out the piano. I've got to do something. This is I have to do this. And I think when that happens, then you're going to realize, then, you know, sorry, you just got bit, and it's and you're and you you've been inoculated, and this is your life. But, you know, Laura, it's, it's a, it's a, it's a very rewarding pursuit. And and the rewards are like putting bread on the water. It comes back to you multiplied and over and over and over again, to the point that you think, what have I done to deserve this blessing, and so that's that, that is why you pursue it. I mean, not for the gain, but for the knowledge that you're doing what you're supposed to be doing. You're doing you're doing it for the right reason. And if you are to be an artist, and I will say this art, art, or creative pursuit in any area, is awfully good, and that's a that's a sidebar, but I've saved a lot of money and not having to pay a therapist by being in the studio the Art, my art has, has, has allowed me to cure up a lot of mental problems. It's great therapy, if nothing else, it's great therapy.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:16:50

Yes, it's very cathartic, for sure, it is.

David Griffin: 1:16:53

It will uncover who you are, and it'll, and it will uncover what kind of mood you're in. It'll, it'll, whether you want it to or not, it's gonna, it'll show up. And now you might have to correct it, or maybe you don't want to correct it, but it's gonna, your emotions are going to show up if you allow them to anyway. That's, I'd encourage anybody that wants to be an artist to pursue it at any level, because I don't think you're going to ever be I mean, there are disappointments, but I think it's, it's a satisfying pursuit, and it and it is worth the effort, it is worth the time, and probably, and to be honest, it's worth the struggle and the suffering. It is it is it is for me,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:17:39

yes, I think, I think a lot of artists definitely agree that despite its roller coaster sort of feeling where, you know, some months you sell, other months you don't, or some months you feel like you're on a roll and you're painting, painting, painting, and other times it's a bit of a dry spell. I think many artists have told me I wouldn't change this for the world. I would still choose this career no matter what. And I find that it also has something and it feels kind of mystical, if you really think about it, which is, there's an aspect of being an artist where you know you paint for yourself, or you paint these things that matter to you, or this truth that you have within you, and then you share it right, whether it's social media, or you go and you apply to an exhibition, a competition, anything, and suddenly you know if your work really resonates with others, You are now found in the midst of other artists and collectors and galleries who might also think, wow, like, we want more of this. And then this is where that mystical part comes in, which is authentic work. Once it's put out there, and you have the bravery to put it out there, it feels like it kind of creates a bit of like this, like you said, like these blessings that come in of like now I'm selling my work. Now suddenly i I'm working with a gallery, or I have a collector who's really enthusiastic and is purchasing, you know, many of my works. Or or you meet other people, and then that connects you to other collectors, other museums, galleries, etc, who you know. It becomes kind of like the the chaos theory, where the flapping of the butterfly's wing causes a storm on the other side of the Earth, type of situation. And your work is that butterfly you know?

David Griffin: 1:19:40

Yes, what a wonderful that's a wonderful description of what we all should pursue. Because we don't know, we probably will never, ever know that the complete result of what we've done, what we are doing, how that affects everybody. But I. Even if it just affects one person, even if it just if the only person it affects is us, if we're the only, if we're the only benefactor, then that from that result that's going to be energy to continue to pursue it, which eventually you're going to connect, if you haven't already, it's going to connect with somebody, and that's and the world is much smaller than we want to believe it is, especially in today's world. You can put an image out there, and somebody in Asia will see it. I mean, I can, I can be in love of Texas and put something on the internet, and somebody on the moon would see it, and maybe it's an encouragement to them. Maybe they're at a maybe they're at a low point, and they think, Well, I just need to see something that that encourages me to keep doing this. If that's the only response and only result, then it's ever been worth the effort, because then you've because that's going to be, that's going to be passed on from them, and then on, and so it's just multiplied on down the road. And so, I mean, we have to live, we have to eat, we have to we have, we need the commerce. We need the economy of the art world to be good. But, and we all have that, we all have to have that that's not anything that can't be ignored. And hopefully, if you're an artist, at some point it gets easier to pursue the financial or to we withstand the roller coaster ride of the financial part of this, because there is that, and it's, and I don't know that it even matters where in your career you are. I think there it's still, we just keep paying the ticket to get on the roller coaster, and we just keep and that's, you know, and like, I heard somebody say, I like going up and I like going down. I just, I like the ride. And I think that's one thing that I would say, is I've really enjoyed this ride. This has been a this has been a blessing. This ride has been a blessing. And I don't want to get off the roller coaster, up or down. I don't want to get off. I want to stay on it. So with that in mind, I hope this encourages people. If you know, if they if they don't like what I say, then they probably should tell me, and I'll take that as a as a compliment, in a way. But we all need to be encouraging each other to pursue what we think is is beautiful and what's truthful, and that that makes the world a better place, makes us better people. And that's that's a that's an admirable pursuit in itself. Rich people absolutely be joyful in kind and compassionate, and maybe somebody's work will do that. For you, I know it's done it for me. It's changed my mind about things. It's opened my mind up about a lot of things that if I hadn't encountered that piece of music or that literature or that painting or that sculpture that I would have been my my life would have been less than, probably than than it is. So I'm grateful for that. So hopefully we can all be part of that bigger picture and and contributing in our own way to do that with excellence and a smile on your face, if you can do it, if you put a smile on your face,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:50

yes, yeah, I think for sure, with a smile on one's face. Because, you know, like you said, despite the difficulties that having this career compose. It's still amazing. You know, it's still something worth waking up in the morning to do every single day.

David Griffin: 1:24:09

Well, it'll be fun to see, yeah, and it'll be fun to see how, when you move to Stockholm, if your work changes, if you I suspect you're going to be influenced differently and those things, or that's exciting to to, to pursue a little bit of an uncertainty, to pursue a mystery and and and the excitement of that mystery. So, so when I interview you in about however many months it is away, then you'll be able to tell me some really encouraging things about what the move has done for your work and how that's how the move has been a good move, and it's in fulfilling. And and this will be fun to be the pot. You're going to continue the podcast. Are you not?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:25:07

Yes, of course, yeah, it continues.

David Griffin: 1:25:12

Well, it'll be interesting. Are you going to learn the language in Sweden?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:25:17

Is it Swedish? Swedish? Yes, actually, I'm learning it. Now you're learning some, okay, good, yeah. Because, I mean, I think if you really want to understand a culture and understand people, you have to, and especially if you're moving there, you have to learn the language, yeah, because so much of culture and the way people think and perceive the world around them is so dependent on language that learning a new language in itself is also it really broadens your mind. And if anything, the one of the things that has truly affected my art and my expression has been learning other languages. Yeah, so it's it's fascinating, and you will definitely hear all about it when you interview me, well,

David Griffin: 1:26:02

I'll look forward to that, and I'll have some really tough questions. I'm going to throw some really hard

Laura Arango Baier: 1:26:07

I'm excited. I love difficult questions.

David Griffin: 1:26:10

This is going to give me some time to really think up a difficult question that's not yes or no,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:26:20

open ended. And actually, I wanted to ask you something before you go, which is, if you have any upcoming shows or workshops or fun stuff that's happening that you would like to tell us about,

David Griffin: 1:26:33

sure, well beyond the art of wandering journey in been I'm excited about being in the course show again. This is my 15th year, and it, it's a it's a wonderful venue with the other artists and getting to speak to people interested in art and and there's 1000 people there one night to do one thing. Well, they do one thing, they can eat and drink, but they're there to buy art. So you're you've got a captive audience of people that that want to learn the language and want to know about the work, and want to know about the artist, and are genuinely interested. And then maybe you'll sell something along the way, and that'll be a benefit too. So we have that that opens. I said the seventh. I think the opening is January the eighth, and it runs through the month. And then I've got a small show in Mount Carmel, Utah, with the plein air painters of America, Papa plein air painters of America, the Papa group that I'm part of now, and that's in May. And then I'll have the idol George quest for the West show that's in Indianapolis, and that'll be in September, and that will be enough for me. That's enough. And along the way, we're going to keep talking to people like you, finding out what the art world is really doing and and where we can plug into things. And as will happen with you, it'll probably happen with me. I'll have a door to open. I'll have some opportunities along the way to that that's exciting too. Just I've got enough to do. I have enough to do from the next couple of years, I've got my days are full, but that doesn't mean that I won't add to it, and so that's what I'm pursuing. And I look forward to connecting with new people, new friends, and along the way that we can all share this, share this conversation with not monolog dialog, and we can, we can learn from each other and be better at what we do.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:28:47

So do you mind telling us what your website is and your social media galleries?

David Griffin: 1:28:53

Well, my website is David Griffin studio.com in its fine art fine art studio. What is Faso stand

Laura Arango Baier: 1:29:03

for? Yeah, fine art studios online.

David Griffin: 1:29:08

That's I'm not very good at that. I'm going to get better at posting the most current work. But my my most current work is on my Instagram page, and that is David R Griffin, and that's I've tried to post weekly on that, and that's probably the place, if someone's interested or they want to communicate, that's the best way. And I'm changing my Well, I'm not changing. I'm adding to my email. I'm going to start using David Griffin studio@gmail.com I think more. And then I'm going to another URL that I'm going to introduce in the new year. So there'll be some I'll completely confuse people how to get a hold of me. But if they, if they look on the website. And get my contact information that that if they want to add to the conversation, which I would love for them to do, then they can contact me that way. And if they're ever in Dallas and they want to come by the studio, all they had to do is call me. I'd love to I love people to come to the studio and we can talk about things that, at least that matter to some of us, maybe more of it,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:30:23

absolutely well. Thank you so much, David for your absolutely amazing, inspiring conversation. I will be thinking about this for many years. I think

David Griffin: 1:30:37

that's that you never know how these things turn out. My expectation was pretty high, but but you've exceeded any expectation I had, and it's much better than I ever thought it could be, especially anything that I'm involved in. But this has been a blessing, and I thank you for thinking of me, including me in this, because I know of the other people that you've interviewed, and I feel very honored to be included in that group of wonderful artists. It's a it's a nice neighborhood to live in. It is. It is very much so. And I'll keep my grass cut and I'll keep my yard clean so I can stay in the neighborhood,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:16

yes, of course, and we'll keep in touch. Good.

David Griffin: 1:31:20

Thank you, Laura, of course, okay.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:23

Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you've enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.