Chantel Lynn Barber: 0:00

Every painting, the goal is to make it better than last painting. But if you wait to become that perfect artist, the day will probably never come. We tend to not see what other people see in our work, and besides, perfection is pretty boring. If you do something that's strong and truly is reflecting your heart and soul, it's going to be far more powerful. Perfect art is not always the art that resonates with other people.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:31

Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Chantelle Lynn Barber, an award winning contemporary artist and educator, renowned for her expressive acrylic portraits and dedication to inspiring creativity in others, Chantal discusses her artistic journey, emphasizing her transition from oil to acrylic paints due to practicality and personal preference. She highlights her 20 year career, including running a storefront business and creating various art forms like furniture painting and glassware. Chantal stresses the importance of using high quality materials, such as professional grade acrylics, and shares her techniques for maintaining paint consistency. She also touches on the emotional and financial aspects of being an artist, advocating for self respect and strategic marketing to reach the right audience. Chantal believes success is about continuous growth and not stagnation, and she values the personal and professional development that comes from her art. She also discusses her definition of success as an artist, emphasizing the importance of creating joyful and uplifting work that resonates with others while also nurturing her own soul. She highlights the value of beauty in enriching lives and the necessity of self care and positive self talk in the face of artistic challenges, while reminding artists that they should let go of perfectionism, she also advises setting goals, networking with other artists and being open to new opportunities. Finally, Chantal mentions her upcoming exhibitions and workshops. Welcome Chantal to the BoldBrush show. How are you today?

Chantel Lynn Barber: 2:20

I'm doing really good. Thank you so much, Laura, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 2:24

and thank you for being here. I'm so excited to talk to you about your work, because I think your work is so beautiful and expressive. And last time I spoke, I described it as very fechinesque, which you found amusing, because, of course, you weren't aware of Fechin for a while, we came across them later, but your work is so unique in the use also of acrylics, which I looked at your work, I'm like, oh my goodness, you can actually pull this off with acrylics, and that's amazing. So I really love that. So I'm very excited to pick your brain about it.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 2:59

Well, hey, I'm excited to share. I love talking about the acrylic medium, so this will be a great opportunity,

Laura Arango Baier: 3:06

yeah, yeah. And I think it might encourage people out there who maybe are afraid of oils as well to, you know, try out acrylics. Because in the end, of course, the mastery comes from the hand and not so much from the medium. But medium can also really influence the way that we do things, which we will also talk about. But before we dive into that, do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?

Chantel Lynn Barber: 3:30

Chantel Lynn barber and I have been creating art for as long as I can remember. I have drawings from the time I was, like, four and five years old. The funny thing is, even though I have done many different subjects throughout my life, I have done still life, I've done plein air, I've, you know, gone out and done animals, the thing that I always focused on the most were people. And even in those early drawings, that is very evident, that it was the people that I was drawing as a child. So it's fun to look back and see how I got those beginnings. And it's I can't remember a time where I wasn't creating art, and so my entire life, I've just been doing different modes of creating things.

Laura Arango Baier: 4:29

So yeah, yeah. And I think you also mentioned too that one of those things was also painting on furniture, sewing, yes.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 4:39

So I am coming up on next year. It will be 20 years since I officially opened a storefront business. So the interesting thing is, I've always done something business, like with my art. When I was a kid, I was actually selling some of my drawings to people to either fill. So you know, children who wanted to buy, of course, we're talking like a quarter back then, or there was actually a principal of our school who wanted to buy one of my paintings, and then a couple of teachers off and on who ended up getting some of the paintings. So there was always something I was doing. I did commissions for many years, just off and on. It wasn't really an ongoing business. It was more of just fitting it in, you know, around my life, because in the early life, we were traveling a lot, and it was harder to be in one place for long and get to know people. But it was 2006 when my husband encouraged me to start an official business, go ahead and we're going to open this, this shop, we're going to have a storefront. And when I did that, I was Dave bling in all kinds of creations that I would make around the house. And then I decided, well, let, let's see what happens if i i fill a storefront. And the funny thing is, it was 1000 square foot, and I filled the entire place with things I created, and I had so much that when we finally decided to move it back to my home studio, I actually had to get a storage unit for a lot of it. As I decided what I was going to keep and you know what I was going to either give away or still sell, but I did painted furniture. I did a very unique technique with decoupage glass. I painted on everything you could think of. You know, not only furniture, but throw pillows and rugs. And I did murals. I also did portrait commissions, many, many portrait commissions that during that time period. So it was really fun, because what I found is when I'm working with my hands, whether it's sewing techniques, embroidery or painting on other surfaces, whether it's creating things, sculptural, type of thing, I've worked in clay, creating little mini sculptures, it always relates back to when I'm painting on, you know, when I'm painting with acrylic, or whatever medium I'm using at that time, it relates back to that. So it's, I guess I'm one of those artists where art is everywhere in my life. I can't help it. It's just so much a part of who I am, that everything I do reflects art.

Laura Arango Baier: 7:36

Yeah, the compulsion to create and to make beauty. You know, that's, yeah, I think that's one of those things that I have noticed a lot of artists also do. Of, like, it isn't just painting, it's also, you know, the choice of decoration in your home, or the the little home improvements that you can make, or, like, the feeling of, you know, holding a beautiful cup while you drink water from it. It just it makes the experience so much more beautiful. And also that pride of, I made this, you know, like,

Chantel Lynn Barber: 8:11

oh, it's life enriching. There's nothing quite like it. And that's why I love visiting other artists homes, because there is a depth that is in their home that you sometimes don't find in a home of a person who doesn't love things that are created with our hands and that give a piece of the Creator's soul into that, you know, item

Laura Arango Baier: 8:36

exactly, yeah, there's like and not to hit On on people who don't like, you know, handmade or anything, because there's room for everybody. But I do also gravitate more towards that home, feeling, that feeling of like, wow, this person treats this place as a home and not just a place that they want to display as if it were, you know, like a magazine.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 9:00

It goes back to the authenticity also. So if you were to go to someone's home where, let's say, their interior decorator and their home doesn't meet up to what you might think an interior decorator would live in, there might be a moment of disappointment, thinking, Oh, you maybe just do it for other people, but not for yourself, whereas, if you are an artist, and everything you do reflects that. It's kind of cool to go and see this person is truly authentic to what they love doing. It reflects in everything around them, yeah, and that's why the shop was was such a great experience. The downside was that I realized as a sole proprietor. When I wasn't there, it became very hard to go and teach workshops and travel and do other things, and so it was starting to limit me, and that's when I decided it was time to relocate to my home studio so that I could actually go and. Travel and do other things that I wasn't going to be able to do when I was running that, that storefront business, but it gave me an incredible amount of experience in business, hands on skills with customers, with finance. So many things that I needed to know, I like to say it, it was probably more valuable than if I had even gone and gotten a degree in that that hands on experience was just amazing. It has reshaped the way that I saw my business in a very positive manner. So that was like that time period, it was about two and a half years. Was extremely important to building on and continuing to move forward with having a business,

Laura Arango Baier: 10:50

yeah, yeah, I can imagine. I mean, it's always like, yeah, learning something on paper, right? Even even drawing, even painting, right? You can buy 20 books on it. You can read all about it, but you're not going to really learn until you actually do it right. And I think that hands on approach of business, I can imagine how much more helpful it was than just reading from a book, and, you know, mentalizing it instead of like, oh, this is, you know, how things work. And I can imagine also the tax part. You know, since you mentioned being a sole proprietor, that's another Pandora's box of things that you can read about it. But once you're doing it, you've learned so much more.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 11:31

Making all those numbers work, you have to make sure that you have more coming in than what's going out. And you know you have to to pay for things. You find out all the things that business owners have to pay for that you never knew before. I didn't realize it. Oh, you have to inspect my fire hydrant and you charge me for doing that. Okay? You know, just little things that. So it gave me greater respect for small business owners and what they actually go through, because until you've owned your own business, you may not understand all of the expenses and just different challenges that are involved to create that seamless experience when the customer actually walks in the door.

Laura Arango Baier: 12:17

Yeah, yeah, there's a lot, you know, it's like that 8020 rule, as they say, where, like, people see that 20% which is the store and everything, but the bulk of the work that 80% is very much the behind the scenes, like making sure the lights are on, making sure that everything's in place. You know, it's, it's a lot, and, yeah, it's, I think that also adds to the respect of like being a self employed person as well, and how difficult it can be, because, as the saying goes, you know, with great freedom comes great responsibility, and especially when you're an artist and you have to wear all These

Chantel Lynn Barber: 12:58

motivating yourself, having to motivate yourself and do things. It isn't all about those feelings. It's about getting up and painting and creating, even on a day where you don't want to do that, or you decided that it's just emotions are good for artists, but they can also be our downfall, and we have to be able to have that self control and continue to produce and do the thing that we love and not let our emotions keep us from doing that exactly.

Laura Arango Baier: 13:35

Yeah, it's definitely the I think, you know, like, like, I said, like, artists have this sensitivity, right? And it can be a double edged sword. I mean, it can, you know, just as it can make your next 20 paintings feel like they're inspired, it can also make you want to crawl in a corner, because, oh no, it's tax season, and I gotta do it. Yeah, yeah, yep. It's really hard. But I also did want to ask you, because you started with oils, that's Yes, and I wanted to ask, you know, how is it that you translate it, you know, you became an acrylic painter, and, you know, as your chosen medium, and then, what is that process like? Like, how has it, you know? How has it been born from the oil painting process, and how has it shifted for you?

Chantel Lynn Barber: 14:31

So, I was taught to paint in oil when I was, I'd say, about 11 or 12 years old. I was very fortunate. I had a neighbor across the street. She was in her 70s, and she invited me over and introduced me to oil paint. Before that, I had played around with oil pastels, soft pastels, you know, colored pencils, but I had never really done anything with paint brushes, and that was very exciting to have. This whole new world opened up before me. She also introduced me to this idea of, I think I might have learned about John Singer Sargent from her. You know, sometimes our memories get a little fuzzy, but there were many artists she showed me that I was not aware of until that time. And so realizing what you could do with paint working with a palette knife, I worked with a palette knife, I worked with paint brushes. And of course, she worked in oil, which is why I just automatically assumed that I would be working in oil. It was I remember. I never really did like the solvents. And now, of course, I know things have changed since then, but back then, turpentine things were just things I wasn't really thrilled with. I also wanted the paint to dry faster, even then I kept thinking, you know, I need this to dry faster. And the it was kind of a detriment to make a mistake and then feel like I couldn't quite lift it right up again because the paint was wet. So those were things that were really in my mind from early on, but the big factor was that when I married my husband, he was already going into the military, and we were going to be doing a lot of traveling, and the movers at that time just said, No, we're not taking your oil paints. And so that first we knew that there was a lot of moves in front of us, but that first move, I thought, Okay, I'll just pack them up in my back of my car and we'll drive them across the country, because we lived in San Diego, California at the time, and we were going to Newport, Rhode Island. So we did that, threw them in the back of the car, drove across, and unfortunately, made a bad decision one night when we were tired of not unpacking the car outside a it was a motel eight back then, and somebody broke in and took all the oil paints along with our dirty clothes, which was really crazy. I remember thinking to myself, you know, this is not going to work, and I don't want to have to figure out every time we move, what to do with my paints. And at that time, after we got settled, I met some artists, local artists, and they were sharing with me, what about acrylic now, I had not heard of acrylic paint before then, and I thought, oh, water soluble. This would be something interesting. I ought to try it. And in the very beginning, it was quite a shock to see how different it was from the oil, because I didn't have any formal training in it. I just went out and bought some paints and started working with them, and I thought, oh, okay, this is very different. But you know, that was just a momentary thought, then I started to realize the benefits that this meeting would have, and I I just really fell in love with it. And I think a lot of the success that I had with it were there were a couple of reasons why. One was my mindset. Never once did I say to myself, Oh, this is drying fast, so therefore I can't do what the oil painters do. I would watch someone paint in oil, and even though I knew that they were painting in oil, I would still see it as if it was an acrylic medium. So I would be figuring out how you could get those same effects with it drying faster, and just look at the way they were painting, as it is acrylic. And there were many, there's many ways you can do that translate the acrylic medium to do things that are very similar to the oil. Plus I was handling it like an oil painter would. I wasn't using a lot of the mediums I, in fact, I didn't use any mediums at all during those years, and even now, I only have one that I once in a while, will use very rarely. I like the acrylic paint just the way it is when it comes out of the tubes. But I also found that there are some mediums that take a little bit more time to get used to it in the beginning, and once you figure out, you unlock its potential, it's so much more valuable to you, and not everyone has patience, but the reward is extremely great with this meeting. This medium is no different than other mediums that we use as far as being able to create exceptional fine art, there has been perhaps in the beginning. The way it was marketed wasn't exactly the best, because I do remember as a younger person, not being able to find artists in in our location working in acrylic, who could teach me the skills that I wanted to learn, who would do either figure, figurative or portrait work it was more of abstract, so they kind of put the acrylic medium in a box right from the beginning. It was very abstract. It was very flat, more as if you were doing a poster or commercialized work, and it didn't have the subtleties that I longed for in my paintings, and the thick and thin passages of paint, it was seen more as craft type paint, perhaps in those early years, than the professional medium that it truly was from the beginning. It was just how people chose to market it. And so there came a day where I decided, since I can't find anyone else to teach me these things, I probably just have to teach myself, and I would study what oil painters were doing and then translate those different techniques into working with acrylic. And I love the flexibility that it's given me. It is not the thing I hear most from students approaching this medium, is that there's this fear factor that if you put something down on your canvas, you can't get rid of it. And that is not true. It's actually very forgiving, and it's very freeing to know that if you lay a stroke down on your painting and then you don't like it once the underneath of their surface is dry, you're able to lift that stroke back up and not lose the integrity of what's underneath. Acrylic lends itself beautifully to building layers. And I love the look of tapestry, weaving different effects into a painting. You can do that with the acrylic medium. And of course, it's come so far from where it was in those early years. And there was a moment where I began to have some doubts, not because of myself, but because of feeling that other artists were, you know, encouraging me, oh, if you're going to be professional, you need to work in oil. And I had to really decide that, no, I'm not going to do that. That's not what speaks to me. Now, don't get me wrong. I love oil paints. I love the artists who create oil paints. I own many oil paintings in my art collection from other artists. I always will be in awe of what they do. But I also know that my acrylic paintings hang next to my early oil paintings in my home, and even I, the artist, cannot see the difference with my own eye, I am able to get the same effects. And you know that I did in oil paints earlier in my life, and I just, I love this medium, and so I decided that this is something that I'm going to do. I need to do work with a medium that resonates with me, and that's what I've done, plus it gives an opportunity to share that with other artists who may not have been able to find a teacher or instructor in their area who could, you know, offer them tips on working in the acrylic medium?

Laura Arango Baier: 23:50

Yes, oh my gosh. I mean, if anything, I feel like I'm sold. I'm so sold on trying it out, because I think I have a bit of a similar temperament from what you described, of like this isn't drying fast enough for me with oils. As much as I love oils, and I think I probably will never quit using oils. I might, you know, play around with other mediums, as we all do as artists. I feel like to gravitate around, but it is a very curious thing, because when I had the same reaction when I saw your work, when I first saw it, I was like, Oh, this is oil. And then when it's I read it says acrylic. I mean, you're kidding.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 24:33

Great thing about acrylic is you can use other so you if you wanted to combine it, let's say with colored pencils. You can do that. If you want to combine it with water soluble graphite, you could do that too. There are many options so that it can become mixed media, if you like. It can also be just the acrylic medium, if you want to keep it solely that. But there are so many different types of acrylic at this point. Time you've got the heavy body, you've the open acrylic, the acrylic inks, so that you as an artist, there are many opportunities to create various effects and to be able to have the soft edges that we so often connect with oil painting. You know, be able to have that wonderful, Lost and Found edges. You can still do that in your painting. But again, it's got to be your mindset. If you go into anything and you're already against it, and you know, I hate this, well, how are you going to learn to do anything and you've already upset yourself that you're not going to enjoy the experience, plus, a lot of the time when people complain about it drying too fast or the paint drying, it's really usually because they've just not put enough paint out on their palette or on their paintbrush. If you don't have enough paint on the paintbrush, how do you think you're going to be able to move it around before it dries? You have to pick up enough paint on the paintbrush?

Laura Arango Baier: 26:08

Yes, yes, I love that. And you just really made me very curious about the types of acrylic, right? Because I think also my experience with acrylic has been the typical like, oh yeah, high school art class where teacher lays, you know, puts the bottles out, and they're like the really cheap, you know, like student acrylics. What so talk, what acrylics do you use?

Chantel Lynn Barber: 26:34

It's all professional grade, and that is a big thing if you are going to use student grade. It's not that there's anything against using student grade acrylics, but they simply will not have the pigment load that professional acrylics have, and so you cannot get the vibrant colors and the intensity if you're not using the right paint starting off with so what I do is I use progression professional grade acrylics. I also have tried enough of the brands to know which ones have the best quality for what I'm doing, because not all acrylics are the same. So I look for a brand that with the heavy body, has a nice consistency. And a lot of times what happens is, even if the acrylic is in a tub, it may be thicker than if it's in a tube, depending on the brand. So sometimes I'll think, okay, I need to buy white in the tub because it's actually going to have a thicker consistency than if I'm buying in the tube. But I favored for many years now, I favored Liquitex and golden and, you know, and there are newer acrylics that have come out that I loved charvin Sennelier. So I'm always looking for, you know, I'm trying to stay on top of things, because I know that things are always changing, and there's new acrylics coming out, and I will experiment with them to see how they hold up. But another thing that I've done for so long now I can't even remember when I started doing it, is using a palette that has a sponge in it, a sponge like material, and then palette paper on top of that. And the palette paper on top of that is porous, so that it will draw the moisture from that sponge. And that allows you to mix your your color, your color pools, and continue to work with them for hours and hours at a time. And even if you want to seal up your paints at the end of the day, you can do that and use them again the next day. And what I found is I like to when I'm checking out which acrylics to use, I like to make sure they're going to stand up on my palette and not go mushy on me. And depending on where you live, you're going to figure out how much moisture you actually need in your sponge to keep it to where it's got a really nice consistency. And it's not starting to just pool into, you know, big puddles of paint

Laura Arango Baier: 29:22

that sounds like sorcery,

Chantel Lynn Barber: 29:25

and it's fun, you know, it's fun to experiment and figure out what to do, and I'm always learning new things. So, you know, just recently, I decided, okay, instead of leaving the paint on the palette overnight, maybe what I need to do to keep it the texture I like it is, put it into the little sealed painting cups. I mix up what I want. It's on my palette. I'm working with it. And then if I want to save it, I put it in the painting cup. And then that also makes sure that the liquid in the sponge is not absorbing too much into the paint and making it it. It and mushy, because you don't want your paint to get watery. It's it you lose control. The more watery the paint is, the less control you have. And there may be times where you want that, but if you want to create sharp, vivid brush strokes, that's not what you want to do. Amazing.

Laura Arango Baier: 30:19

Amazing. That is really cool. And I think it's definitely the way that you've handled it, you know. And I can see it, of course, on the painting that you have on the easel, which is very beautiful.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 30:31

And this is a work in progress. It's still got a little bit of fine tuning to go. But, you know, the the interesting thing now, I will tell you this with acrylic. The other thing I love about it is, when I'm doing a painting like this, I tend to take my edges out further than maybe, so let's say the mass. I'll take that edge out and it might be a little bit larger than I want it to be, because then when I come back in and I go over that edge, I can control those soft edges and have just a little bit of that green peeking through, which is what an oil painter would do, if they take the brush across and they drag it so there's different ways to get those same nuances. And plus, I find that it's more fun for me if I exaggerate just a tiny bit and then I start fine tuning and deciding where I want to keep the exaggerated parts of my painting, and where I want to go back in and correct that drawing and refine it to a little bit. You more of a I don't want to say perfection, because it's all perfection in its own way, but it it's that some areas need to be drawn a little bit tighter, and other areas need to be exaggerated a little bit more.

Laura Arango Baier: 31:49

Yeah, yeah. And I really love that, because one of the things that I've also struggled with with oil paints, which you also mentioned, is the health risks associated with some of the pigments. So I'm very much a non toxic pigment person, but then that kind of limits me a little bit as well, because a lot of artists, they really, really love lead white. The one thing I don't enjoy is how lead white is not the safest pain to use, like I stay away from it. Personally, I have a lot of friends who love it, and it works if you're careful, but I'm, I wouldn't say that. I'm not a careful painter, but sometimes things happen. You know, I had a friend who they had been using lead white for a long time. They had their you know how we reuse mineral spirits or Terps to clean our brushes? Well, they spilled that on themselves and got lead poisoning, and they didn't realize it until much later, when they started getting symptoms that when they spilled it on themselves, they actually did get themselves lead poisoning. So that's something to watch out for. But I do love that the whites that I see on that painting are transparent, like you can play with that transparency

Chantel Lynn Barber: 33:08

without play with it. And there's different types of whites, titanium white, zinc white. They're going to give you different effects in your finished painting. The other thing that I really love doing is to use the you know, you've got so many different tools that are going to apply your paint in different ways. You can go heavy with palette knives you can scrape back into but my when this is a new studio for me. I've only been in it a little over a year, and I decided it was a perfect time to kind of reinvent some of the things I was doing. And so I actually have a glass palette that's right under my painting that is attached to my easel. You are not limited to just using a stay wet palette with acrylic, if you love using a traditional glass palette. What I found is, if you take a little bit of the open acrylic and you mix it with your heavy body, even just the tiniest bit that is going to extend your drying time, it's not going to affect the texture of the heavy body, depending on how much paint you put in. But no matter what, you're still going to get something that you can use and is going to look fabulous up on your painting surface. I like that better than using a lot of extender mediums or watering down my paint with medium. I don't like that. I want to have thick, sumptuous paint on my canvas. Now, I have heard other artists who share that when they're doing big pieces, that they take the acrylic and they want to put a lot of medium into it, and that's okay for you know their style. If that's what they love. Again, being based in oil painting, I don't like that. I want my acrylic. I'm willing to put more paint on to really get fabulous build up and texture in my piece and maintain the pure color and the richness of the paint so that it doesn't become filmy in a bad way. And what I've decided is, you know, paint is cheap, my time is not. I'm limited on my time. I'm limited on what I get to create. And I want to create the very best that I can do, which means I want to get the best supplies I can afford to do that. So wherever you are in your art journey, get the best supplies you can afford at that time. Don't scrimp on your supplies. You and also, when you get your supplies, don't save them for when you become really good. You need to be creating on those supply you know, on that and I paint on really nice surfaces. I always do. I love painting on good quality surfaces. This is a great panel made by Artifex, and it's just, it's amazing, because, honestly, you cannot paint a good painting if you have a really low quality surface. Now what has driven that Home to me is I teach many workshops. I see what can be done in acrylic on a low quality surface, and what can be done in acrylic when you have a really good painting surface. So I've experienced this firsthand, and it does make a difference. And a lot of the frustration in working with acrylic, for many, many artists is because they've created themselves, because they're not thinking about, you know, making it a little bit easier. And let's get some products that are really going to work for you?

Laura Arango Baier: 37:03

Yes, yeah. I totally, I totally get that, because I think it's like the never ending issue we have as artists, where a lot of us are perfectionists, and they're like, Oh, how could I ever ruin this beautiful surface with some imperfect work of art, right? It's like the I bought this really nice, beautiful journal I could never write in it now, because it's so beautiful, right? But yeah, I

Chantel Lynn Barber: 37:30

go with that. I do. I come from a perfectionist family, and everything had to be ultra perfection. And I let fear in those early years, I let fear put me in a corner. I wouldn't do anything because it would never be good enough. It would, you know, I mean, I wouldn't do anything that I would show anyone because it would never be good enough. And I would have surfaces that would never be touched, and I do all the drawings on little cheap things because, oh, I can't do that. It's never going to be good enough. But the reality is, if, if you struggle with that already, you you're never going to reach that moment where you suddenly feel like, Oh, wow. This painting so good. It's this is okay. I'm going to put it on this surface. What's going to happen is you just have to start to make yourself do it. Enjoy the process. Use the surface. And by using the surface, whatever it is that you want to work on, whatever supplies you want to work with, you get to know them. It becomes second nature to that to you, you understand the effects you can get, the ones you like you keep, the ones you don't like you don't keep. And every painting the goal is to make it better than last painting. But if you wait to become that perfect artist, the day will probably never come. I have met many master artists who are still critical of their work after so many years of doing, and it's phenomenal, but we tend to not see what other people see in our work, and besides, perfection is pretty boring. That's not what's going to make your work your own. If you do something that's strong and truly is reflecting your heart and soul, it's going to be far more powerful than a painting where everyone has it, you know, just so in our eyes. So perfect. Perfect art is not always the art that resonates with other people.

Laura Arango Baier: 39:42

Yes, yes, I love that. I love that very much. Because there's, it's natural that our work isn't perfect, right? Because we ourselves are imperfect, right? We're humans, we and

Chantel Lynn Barber: 39:57

there's beauty in that. So why isn't there? Beauty in our paintings with that exactly?

Laura Arango Baier: 40:03

Yeah. I mean, it's like reading any great fantasy novel where, you know, the character starts in one way, and they grow and, you know, they go through all of these trials and tribulations, and at the end, you know, there's like this happily ever after. But the beauty is in that those peaks and valleys of all of the things that they've gone through, and it's not perfect, and they aren't perfect, and that's the inspiring thing, right? So I totally agree, and now that we're on this topic, actually, I think it's the perfect segue into my next question, which is, how have you found that painting has helped you, not just as an artist, you know, grow as an artist, but also as a person.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 40:46

That's a great question. It's actually something I think about a lot. I think about people, and why do I paint people? And I even though, like I said earlier, I do have joy in painting other subjects, and I do. I may not publish publish them as much, but I do create from other subjects. But there's no doubt that the thing that I love the most is painting people. And so how has this I believe made me a better person, is the more you look at faces, the more you paint figures, the more you study people as they walk by you, and you see the beautiful light falling on their faces, or you see a smile or an expression in their eyes, or even a moment where maybe you're seeing a glimpse of their soul, you start to love people a whole lot more than you did before. And if there's anything that I think we need more of, is love for other people. And I'm not talking about whether you like what they do all the time or whether you don't like what they do. I'm talking about a love that transcends when a person disappoints you or when a person angers you, or when a person doesn't do what you think they should be doing or make the choices you think they should make, can you go beyond that? And can you love that person? Well, the longer I work on paintings, and I'm looking at faces and I have done, I was trying to think the other night, how many faces have I done? How many portraits, even portrait commissions. It's got to be 1000s and 1000s at this point, because, like I said, I started long before I officially opened the business, and you get to the point where you cannot help but look at these faces over and over again, or even figure paintings, you know the way the human body is, and not start to love those people and want to get to a deeper level. And so if I'm struggling and I'm having a bad day and I'm not really loving that person, I find that when I come back and I get at the canvas, the easel, and I start painting, it helps me work through that, and it helps me see people in a different light. And that's what I want to do. If there's one thing I want to get better at for myself personally, is is to love people and to be kinder and have more compassion on people around me. And I truly believe the paintings that I do have helped create that in my life, because I can see on my own journey, looking back from when I started that to where I am today, and I feel like I've gone deeper, not to say that I've achieved perfection, because I certainly have not. I am very, you know, many, many, many flaws and have. We all have our own struggles, and we are not perfect by any means, but it's being able to genuinely grow in that and relate that to our the fellow people that were around. Because no matter what you do as artists, it's so easy to want to just stay in the studio. I I am really bad about that. I would, in fact, even now, I can feel my face heating up. I'm more of an introvert. I just am I, you know, I can be the extrovert, I can put myself out there, but usually I end up with my rosy red cheeks because there's still a part of me that's just you. But I need to be with people. I need to participate in life. And that's the other thing that I've been learning recently. Is standing at an easel for 10 hours a day and not going out and living your life is not a good thing either. And I get really bad about that. I can just. Stay here and focus and focus and not want to be interrupted and not want to leave, you know, but that's not a good thing. It's not healthy. And I We also, as you begin to get older, you start to realize that you can't misread your body continuously, like artists tend to do, and have it not begin to reflect. So we have to start to be a little bit gentler with ourselves and realize that perhaps you know, standing at your easel for 12 hours with your neck kinked like this is maybe not a really good thing, and going out and refreshing yourself by being around other people, regardless of whether they irritate you or not. It's good for our soul. It's good for our soul because it makes us think of other people and not just focus on our own struggles.

Laura Arango Baier: 45:55

Yes, and also, I think to add to that, it's when you're in your studio. It's almost like you know you're in this bubble right. Then when you go out, you are forced to experience growth. Because, of course, when you're in your studio, it's that comfort zone, it's that safe spot, it's no one bothers me here. But then if you, if you if you don't go out there and talk to other people and, you know, have a an interesting conversation, you know, I find it harder to be inspired, right? I think other people can be so inspiring to talk to and hear their perspectives. And, hi, I didn't think of it that way before, and I think that really goes hand in hand with being an artist, right? It's, you know, you need that outside look, you know, go out, take a walk, and, you know, you catch the light on someone, like you said, on someone's face, and suddenly, ah, that's a really pretty thing. I want to paint that. So, yeah, it's having that balance of those two worlds, yeah.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 46:58

And we get inspired when you're out. All it takes is seeing maybe a pattern that someone's wearing or a background behind them. To give you the idea of, ooh, if I put that color behind, you know, the head on, maybe the painting that's sitting at home, wouldn't that look great? Or if I do that, or even just watching, you know, someone's face move. Now, of course, working from live models is a wonderful thing to do when we can, but not everyone has that opportunity. So if you don't have that opportunity, it's even more important to go out and see the way people's face moves when they get animated, you know, their mouth, their their inflection, of eyebrows, things like that, especially if you are doing portrait or figurative work, because then you come back and you see whatever you're working on with a whole different it's you're seeing in a whole different Light, because you're realizing, once again, it's not just a flat surface that you are depicting a three dimensional the roundness of the forms and the way the light is hitting those forms, and how important that is, but you're also putting Your emotions into it. How do you see this? And that's the what's really fascinating about creating art is when you get to the point where you trust yourself enough to put on your painting service the voice that we each our own unique voice that we each have and how we view what's in front of us, and that's what makes your painting different from someone else's interpretation of the same subject. Exactly?

Laura Arango Baier: 48:51

Yeah, yeah, it's the you know, like having a prompt, and it's describe this in your own words, right? And you'll have a bunch of different people describing the same thing, but in a slightly different way, slightly different light, because we're so built on our own experiences of things and our own perceptions of things, right down to even the perception of color and our preference to color can be so totally different from person to person. Someone might favor greens, someone might favor oranges when painting, and that's, you know, the whole perception of something can, yeah, just really create a totally new thing. And then, to top it off, right, when you're painting a model, painting a person, you know, it's also very much colored by your experience of that person as well. Like, Oh, I relate this person with the color pink, or I release this person with the color yellow, because they're so bright and happy and and suddenly, you know, that also adds to the the interesting interpretation, translation that happens instead of, oh, this is exactly what I see. And this is objection. Initiative. It's more like, Okay, this is what my eyes are putting in here, in my in my brain, because you actually see with your brain, and then that gets translated through my hands into this totally different thing that then gets re seen through my eyes. So it's very mystical yet scientific thing, yeah.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 50:17

And I think that's why I love creating movement in my pieces, and more the energetic brushwork, and just a lot of it is I'm feeling, I just want to get it down on the canvas. But it's also that life has movement. We're not just even when we're still, we're never really still. There's always a little bit of that fidgeting or moving your head, or there's movement, and that is life. And so I really there's something about that that fascinates me, and I want to grab some of that energy and somehow get it into that, that painting surface, and be able to show that this is is alive. It's reminding you of life's experiences too. So it goes hopefully beyond just that moment that you you see in front of you, and maybe even triggers memories or just there's so many ways that viewers can react to paintings that we create.

Laura Arango Baier: 51:20

Yes, yeah, it's a it's interesting that whole, you know, like art artist dialog, but then also art artist and then viewers dialog that happens that can also really unify people, in a way. It's very like it. The you know, certain paintings pull in certain people because they resonate with it, right? And this is something that we've talked about the podcast many, many times. How you know you're not going to paint for everybody, but then the people who do really resonate with it, they they will. They'll like you said, it'll remind them of, oh, this This place reminds me of a dream I had when I was a child. I'm so happy you painted it. Or that person's face reminds me of my grandmother, you know, like there's so many different things that unite us as people, and I think that really ties back into the idea of love that you were mentioning loving people and showing compassion and grace for yourself and for others, which

Chantel Lynn Barber: 52:26

and I completely agree with that. And what's also fun is I think what I love about working in the style that I work in is that if I want to paint someone from a model, but then I'm going more for the emotion. I'm not trying to get an exact likeness. I have the freedom to do that. I have the freedom to take the painting any direction I want. However, that doesn't mean that I can't get a likeness when I want, either want to or need to. And this particular piece is I'm working on my daughter in law was model, and she actually made the mask that she's wearing in it. It's a phenomenal mask. I love it, and so I'm my goal is to have her likeness coming through and but that can still be achieved in the same style while having those nuances of color and the strokes and the painting doesn't have to get tighter simply because you're wanting to have it resemble somebody. It gives you a lot of flexibility using this, and it's fun to also challenge yourself on Can I get a certain effect I want while still giving just enough information so that it does feel like the person or what if I want to completely change this and take it a different direction, do I have to stand by my Original idea if the original idea is no longer effective. So you an artist, we have that freedom to know what does it take to make your painting better? And that very often means being willing to change something that perhaps you've put yourself in your own box with thinking, Oh, that the hair has to be this color, it has to be this color, or, you know, this has to be this, or that has to be that. And you come in and you can still switch things up, and your painting can be even more powerful than if you stick to a certain rigid set of rules that so many times, we tend to set for ourselves.

Laura Arango Baier: 54:45

That's exactly what I was going to say. If you've been enjoying the podcast and also want to ask our guest live questions, then you might want to join our monthly BoldBrush live webinars, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories and answer your burning questions in real. All Time, whether you're a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn and spark new ideas, and whether you're stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don't miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next BoldBrush Live Webinar is coming up on the fourth of December, with our special guest, Kevin McPherson, you can find a sign up link in the show notes. At BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H, show.com the BoldBrush show is sponsored by Faso. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link faso.com, forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast. That's F, A, S, o.com, forward slash podcast, but it's so easy for us to box ourselves in and to have these almost sometimes, not always, but almost absurd, sort of limitations that you know, can be hard to really allow ourselves, because, like you said, since it can usually be self imposed, it can be hard to allow yourself right, the the freedom, the grace to try something new. Because I think in part, it's the fear of Oh, but what if I fail? But also, I think, a similar note. It's like, what if you don't right? What if you succeed, and it turns out really great. And then there's nothing wrong with painting the same thing many times, to get a feel for it, to try something new and give yourself any artists

Chantel Lynn Barber: 57:55

have done that, yeah? Oh yeah. I love the story of Sargent, and I hope I don't get any of the facts wrong, but I remember his Madame X painting that he thought was one of his very best works, and it was not received well. So, you know, he could have been questioning himself and thinking this was I thought this was really good, and obviously the public did not think it was good. And I believe that was the reason he ended up leaving Paris. But he held on to that painting, and he also held on to the idea that he believed it was really good. And it took time, but eventually everyone came around to his way of thinking, and he sold it. I think it was to a museum, and it was a success. And you know how today, we absolutely love that, so he stood firm. And that's another thing I think is so important for us as artists, is you cannot always be swayed by what other people think. If you know that it's good, and if you get to a point where you feel like this is what I want to do, you've got to hold on to that and not following public opinion, because public opinion can be wrong. And in Sergeant's case, it was wrong big time that was, you know, and but just think, what if he had gone home and thought, Oh, it's terrible. I'm going to destroy this right now. That would have, you know, we would have lost some incredible piece of art. So artists have to be willing to be able to critique their own work and want to get better, but also to hold on to something. If you really do feel good about it, it doesn't matter what other people say. You've got to just hold tight to that?

Laura Arango Baier: 59:41

Yes, yes, yes, absolutely. And to add to the sergeant comment as well, or story sergeant, funny enough, I think a lot of people look at his work and think, oh my goodness, he did that in one go. That's insane. But the truth is, and this is what I learned when I was in the academy, he would actually repave the same face multiple times. He would go up, he would do it. He'd step all the way 20 feet back, as he used to, and then if he hated it, he would completely scrape it off and start over. And I think a lot of people don't realize that, that he wasn't, you know, he's a human. He wasn't perfect, and he had the opportunity to on the same canvas, just go it, go it, go it, go for it, again and again and again, which is, you know, it's in the end, what really differentiates, you know, artists like Sargent from others, is that drive to try again and try again and try again, try again.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:00:47

And it's extremely important. And on that note, I often paint over other paintings and have a go at him over and over again. And sometimes the telltale sign, even on a work in progress, is if you see my signature already on it, it's because it was an earlier painting that was signed. And now I've gone back and I've painted over it, and it's many times I find out what was underneath actually makes the painting I'm putting over it even better, which is wonderful, but it's also coming back and realizing there may be a point in time where you cannot save what was happening, and it is far better to start again and start fresh than to try to keep saving something that is only getting more deadened, looking just very you know it's not going To get better, no matter how much you sit there and and try to puddle away at it and, oh, I'm gonna make this work. It's not worth it. And you know, on that same note, I don't keep paintings around me that were my worst. I just don't it brings my spirit down. Now, I will learn from them. I will, I'll look at it, I'll figure out what went wrong. But there's no need for me to keep a closet full of paintings that I can't stand. So I get rid of I'm very ruthless with my own work. I will get rid of it if it is not good, and I don't do it right away, but I'm talking after some time of really studying if it's not good and I am unable to paint over it, if there's a reason why I just can't do that, whether it's the surface has gotten too much paint, or whatever the reason might be, I will destroy them. And I know many people disagree with me with that, but that's okay, the reason I do that? If you're a musician and you play a song the wrong way when you're practicing, it doesn't Are you going to record that and play it over and over and over again in your studio? No, when we make mistakes, they don't hang around. It's not like an artist who you paint a bad painting and then you leave it there to taunt you for the next 20 years. You know, I'm not gonna do that. I'm learning from it, and then it's gone, and I start over again. And I love that, because for me, personally, it's like wiping the slate clean. It wasn't a waste of my time. I learned so much during that experience. I figured out what worked and what didn't work. And now I'm on to the next piece.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:20

Yeah, yeah. And honestly, I'm with you. Having a burn pile can be kind of liberating as long as it's, you know, stuff that's non toxic to the environment. But if you don't feel like, you know, reusing the panel or whatever, it is actually very liberating to have a burn pile and be like, Okay, these are the skeletons of my mistakes, and I'm just gonna symbolically destroy them, or literally destroy them, yeah.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:03:53

And it is a wonderful feeling of starting fresh again, and sometimes we need to have that. And of course, every artist needs to decide what works best for them. I just know that, in my case, that has been so effective to not let those stay around and to continue to work toward the goal of getting better with each piece, even if it's just, you know, a technique that I want to try, or a certain look that I'm achieving, whatever it is I always want to try to push myself with the next painting that I do. And sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn't, but that's okay.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:04:40

Yeah, it's those peaks and valleys that we all go through with our work. I think a lot of people think it's all just like an upwards climb, but in reality, it's more like the trend is towards up. But within that trend, it's a lot of Ziggy zaggy, Ziggy zaggy. But now I. Um, because no one's perfect. And when you learn something new, you have to practice it a couple times before you get it right, and then you level up right. So it's, that's how it is. And then I wanted to ask you, because since you did have experience, you know, with the business side, I'm going to be asking about business stuff. So when you, when you decided to switch over to only your paintings, right, because you were working on like furniture and glass and all these beautiful crafts, what was it like for you when you, you know, went from having your small business and actual location to just focusing on paintings. What was that like? How did it affect you, emotionally and economically?

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:05:52

I It was one of the best things I did. Not that I don't enjoy those years of trying, you know, different things. And I still, like I said, I still want to have my hands just for me in many different art piles, you know, creating different things. I also knew that my my love, was always creating more the fine art, and I wanted to give that enough time to nurture it and truly be able to I felt like that was where my strongest voice was, and that was where my deepest passion was, and so it needed to really take center stage. And what was happening during that time was it was kind of getting lost in the middle of everything else. So as far as for me, my emotional, my mood, that was a good thing. I knew that that was the direction I wanted to go in. I also realized that, yes, it was going to change things. However, I I made several decisions after I relocated from the having the storefront to my studio and changing up kind of the the business structure was I was going to teach more, which I'd always done off and on, but I had never allowed myself to really go out and travel and teach workshops in larger groups, and I decided I want to do that, and so that was actually going to help me with my own art, because the more I taught other people and I shared with them, the more I learned through the whole process. And, you know, I benefited from students knowledge, and so was able to go home. And really that was so valuable to creating my own art, but also being deciding to focus more on on the fine art. It gave me this idea of I really began to analyze what was going on around and what I mean by that is deciding what did I love to do that I thought would resonate well with, with the you know, collectors, also thinking about my own prices in The beginning, how I was going to start out, and advertising was a very big factor too, that that was really important to begin to be serious about adverse advertising. And not all venues are the same. I learned that when I had my shop, there were some things I spent advertising on that I wish I had never done. It was, not good. It didn't give me the, you know, I didn't get back what I expected to get back from it. So one of the things I learned that was very valuable is don't advertise to the wrong market. So I'm not going to put a billboard up on the side of a rural side of a rural road out in the middle of nowhere, saying, Why chantelles art? Because that's not my target audience. And it doesn't matter how much you advertise to the wrong audience, you're not going it's not going to resonate with them. So there is this idea of everyone should have access to art. Now I'm not against that, but the days that I had my shop, I learned firsthand that by making your art so attainable with the prices that everyone could have it did not mean that everyone wanted to buy it. It also did not mean that they even respect it or valued it, no matter how. You know, no matter what you price your art at that you feel like that. This. This should be a reachable goal for someone. Someone should be able to afford the art at this level. Regardless of what their income is, there's they're always going to be excuses of why they either don't want it or can't afford it, or that it's simply not valuable enough to them. So I one of the things I learned, don't undersell yourself as an artist, you have got to respect yourself first, if other people are going to respect you, and you need to price your art at a start, at a point where you're then going to go up from there, but you're also going to say, I respect my work enough that this is what I'm selling it for, and I'm not going to bargain, and I'm not going to have the this is going to date me if I say this, but the Kmart Blue Light Special, I'm not going to do that. I respect what I do, and I'm going to stand firm. And then as I'm out there, and I'm getting more accolades, and I'm getting better and I'm then I will gradually increase, because that is fair to the collectors who have purchased my work. It isn't very honoring of your collectors if they purchased it for x amount of dollars, and now you've reduced it to less than half of what that is, because, again, you're trying to go after the wrong people. That's not going to help you. So I was very fortunate to learn that in those early years that my collectors, I have to know my audience, and have to know where to reach them. So advertising, looking for the people who would collect the kind of art that I was creating, that I wanted to create. Also, I found that even though it's wonderful to have local art groups, and it's important, and I was active in local art groups. In fact, I was the the vice president and the president of a local art group for several years. If you want to be professional and you really want to do something with your art, and you want to be able to make an income at your art and actually pay your bills and have extra you have to go national and international. You've really got to take that leap. You. There are very few artists who are able to do that locally. Now I'm not going to say that no one can do that, because that's probably not true, but I'm going to say that for me, I made a decision that if I was going to do this, I had to go national and international to be able to do it. That was going to make a big game changer. And so again, I decided where to put my advertising resources, where I was going to spend advertising money that was going to help me achieve that goal and target to the right audience, and not send money to an audience that was not going to buy or appreciate my art no matter what I did. And you know what I mean by that is there are certain audiences you could put, I know, Rembrandt sergeant, you know, amazing living artists in front you could put those paintings in front of them, and they still would not be moved by them. Or, you know, want to, I mean, me, I'd be like, What can I do to have that painting in my house? What do I need to do that they're not that's not what they're going to do. And that's okay. All you need is to find the people who love it, and it is enriching their lives, because we aren't all the same. We are not motivated by the same things. We don't have the same loves. And so it's important to know your audience, to look at what kind of advertising can you afford, and get the best advertising that you can afford for that, and the the advertising that you feel is like going to hit your target market, market, and that's what I started doing. I started building up, you know, looking for that target audience. Since I was no longer in a public space, since I was working on my private studio, I still had a website, I still had social media. I was going out and connecting with people, but I also needed to reach a larger audience than who was going to walk into my home studio at that moment in time. So that made a difference, and I think I've answered the question I lost track. No.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:14:43

It's, it's, you've answered it. And then Sam, because I think, yeah, it, ah, it's one of those things when you're an artist, where, since it feels like it's not quite in the realm of like regular, you know, like selling. Chairs, selling tables, you know, selling regular objects or even clothing. To some extent, it it feels weird to think of marketing in the same way, but targeted marketing, like you're saying, of course, it's like, oh my gosh, duh. Like, I can't sell my art to everybody. I think I had a person while ago who mentioned, like, Yeah, you don't go to, I don't know, outside of a carnival to try to sell, you know, paintings that are worth 1000s of dollars. Because who's going to have that money? Who goes to the local carnival? Probably very few people, right? So it makes perfect sense that, yeah, you want to find your target audience, okay? Try to think about what kind of people are they? What are their interests? Where would they go, like you said, I mean, if you try to take like a person who I don't know really likes sports, and you put them in an art museum, they might not have the same type of reaction as someone who loves the theater and goes to an art museum, right? It might be very different,

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:16:02

and there's a way to cross genres, of course, by the sports at sports painting, but still, you have to have the person who can afford, or is willing to, not always just afford, let's say is willing to scrimp on other things so that they can have that piece of art.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:16:22

Yes, exactly. Yeah. It's, it's really cool, because it really puts into perspective, like, Hey, maybe I my art isn't a failure. Because it isn't, it isn't selling. Maybe I'm just trying to sell it to the wrong people, or trying to sell it in the wrong way. And even social media works that way as well. Because there are limits to maybe, like, all the type of art, maybe the people who would appreciate my art, maybe they're not so much on social media, maybe they're not on Instagram, maybe they're on Facebook instead, right? There's even within those two social media platforms, there's a difference, which is why I you know the approach that you took of like, in person, local or even international things that revolve around the type of work that you make are even better because that's an actual, real place where those possible collectors, appreciators, galleries, etc, would truly be and you would connect with them in person.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:17:15

Yeah. And again, it's respecting yourself and another tidbit that I will share from learning this personally is thinking that because you have a friend, a close friend, or someone who trying to connect with them emotionally with that they're going to feel sorry for you, saying, you know, I couldn't pay my bills this month, and I really need to sell this painting, thinking that that's going to make them buy your painting. It is not going to make them buy your painting. The reality is, not only will they not feel sorry for you, but they will probably think there's something wrong, and they may even pull back and think, Oh, she can't keep it together, or he can't keep it together. What's going on there? So another thing that's so important for artists, it doesn't matter if you only have a penny to your name, you don't let anyone know it. It's not something that needs to be public knowledge. Whether you've made millions, you know, that doesn't need to be. You are respecting yourself. You are selling your work for what you need to sell it, and you're not going around playing. You know, if you have to confide in somebody, you make sure you get someone who you can really, really, really, really trust, and there's very few people you can do. It may be better just to go in the closet and knock the wall, I mean, because there are just certain things that are are not going to help you. And yes, we may all get frustrated, and we all have our ups and downs, and we have good times, we have bad time, just because that's the way life is. But you have to learn to hold things close to yourself, and you cannot confide in everybody, and you no matter what is happening, you stand firm, you hold your own, and you respect what you're doing, because what we do as artists, is valuable, and money is close to people's heart, and they will pay for things that they see as valuable. And if you shoot it down in front of someone else, you're going to undercut them seeing your work as valuable enough to pay for it absolutely.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:19:41

Yes, yes. And there's also, you know, if you are an artist who's struggling, there's nothing wrong with a day job to, you know, supplement well work. You know, painting happens that way. You're not like, feeling the double pressure of like, Oh, I gotta, I gotta create them all. So I can't pay my bills this month. It's like, oh, maybe you should make it a little easier on yourself and

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:20:04

get you whatever you need to do to continue to create art. And yeah, they're amazing artists who've done that for years and years, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. And it's a lot better than you know, because you're maintaining your respect. It's a whole lot better than sitting there and thinking that you're going to get people to sympathize with your plight and that they'll want to they're not going to, yeah, yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:20:31

And it definitely changes the motivation for buying the work as well, which, you know, it a piece that sells out of pity. It's very different from a piece. Yeah, we

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:20:45

have emotions that attach to art. We do. I don't want someone to look at my pain and have a feeling of, oh, I bought this because I felt bad for her that day. No, look at it. And I bought this because this is amazing art, and it touched me, and I think of this, and I think of that, and you know that it's a treasure. And so recently, I mentioned probably several times already that we've done a recent move, and I packed up my own art collection and realized how many incredible paintings I have by other artists, and carefully wrap them because nobody else wanted to move it for us and but you know what, as I was wrapping those paintings and going through this time in my life where was a bit of an upheaval, those paintings brought me so much joy and peace and looking at this beautiful art and thinking of these wonderful memories of, you know, sometimes I got to meet the artist, and I got to see what they were creating and just things that were happening my own life that was phenomenal. And so that made that time very special. It's almost like I, even though I look at these paintings every day on my walls, that gave me the chance to revisit him in a way that I hadn't before, which leads me down to another thing, and that is, if you want to get better at your art, there comes a point where you have to put it next to the artist who you admire their work and see if it will hold up. One reason that I love to collect art is, of course, because I love it. I love supporting other artists. I love the work that they create and enriches my own life. But a second reason is I want to see it and see how they handled different challenges in their work, and I want to see if my painting can be hung next to it. And if it will be okay, if I can handle having the two together, because way back in the beginning, it would be like, Ooh, I don't want my painting here. I'm seeing all these flaws that I didn't see earlier, and it needs to be in a different room. But you know, the more you learn from this other artist, and we learned so much just by studying their works of art, the better you're going to get. And there's nothing like having your own art collection, because in a museum, you can only get so close. We've all, I don't know if other people have activated the buzzer, but you know when you're trying to get close enough to see something, but when it's your own private art collection, nobody tells you you have to back away from the painting, and you can even feel it if you want to.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:28

Yeah, I have also set off the buzzer. It's always so embarrassing, because everyone looks over like, what are you doing? And it's like, yeah, I really wanted to see the texture, and the light is reflecting weird, and I just want to see what's going on. Oh, I totally relate to that. Oh, but yeah, I totally agree. I mean, I think that's one of those things that a lot of people shy away from, or they might be afraid of, is comparing their work to the people they admire, whether living or dead. Because I think a lot of the more contemporary philosophy surrounding art has been so much about the original and like, do your own thing, but at the same time, you know, we're

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:24:09

not talking about comparing in a bad way. Oh no, not talking. You know, we're not saying we're and we're not talking about copying their work either. We're talking about simply seeing if yours is getting stronger, if some of the concepts that they have that you love even asking yourself, why do I love their painting? What do I love about it, and what are their little bits of that that I could translate into my own work? So in that way, it is a really good thing, and it's a powerful tool to

Laura Arango Baier: 1:24:38

use exactly, and I think that's the misunderstanding that people have about it, because it's like, no, there's absolutely no way that I could ever be I don't know DaVinci, because there's only ever been one, and I am not him, and I'm not even in the same realm of world that he was in, right? Like we're different people, but we can carry the torch. Of you know, at least in realism that our predecessors have had, that we're just continuing. And you know, some of those things, they were also looking at the past being like, Oh, wow, this composition is gorgeous. How do they have that? Or the value composition, color composition. There's so many things that we can learn from the past that we pull into the present without necessarily hurting ourselves or saying, like, oh, how dare I or, you know, bring ourselves down. It's more like, How can I pull myself up through my technique by also looking at the people I admire and seeing how they did things, which I totally, yes, I I've also heard the you know, oh, you're gonna hurt yourself if you do that. No, if anything, it's helped me as an artist to continue to develop and grow, which is really important. Yes, and I wanted to ask you also, for you personally, what has success meant to you?

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:26:00

It's an interesting question. I've I have actually thought about it before now, you know Dave, because there's different things that you think success. What does it mean? Well, of course, it is wonderful when people, when you have name recognition. I mean, it's kind of although a lot of times it's still surprising by you know, if you go somewhere and you're thinking, nobody knows who I am, and then suddenly, some suddenly someone, oh my gosh, you're so and so. And I'm thinking, okay, that's that's very nice. And obviously the financial part, being able to make money at what I love, is also very nice. But you know, when it really gets down to it, it's not those two things because I have had moments where I've sold a painting that maybe I wasn't happy with and maybe, and that doesn't even mean that I didn't think it was done well. It might just mean that the subject matter, maybe it was a commission, and I did a subject matter that maybe it truly didn't resonate with me or something, and I realized it wasn't the money. It wasn't, you know, it's this, to me, success as an artist is number one, not being stagnant, not getting to a place where I'm comfortable, where I start to actually go backwards, because I've stopped being excited about what I'm doing. Success is to continue to create work that I hope will touch other people, that will resonate with them, that will bring them joy, but at the same time, to be able to discover things about my love for creating art, and have the courage to be free enough to put that on the canvas and paint in a way that brings joy to my own soul and not it's not a selfish thing, because unless you fill yourself up, it's like your emotional bank account, unless you fill your emotional bank account up, you can't give out to other people. So it becomes this wonderful opportunity to be enriching and feeding your own soul so that then you're able to share that with other people. And so Success for me is to continually be learning myself, continually be growing to be experimenting and exploring. And at that same time, the the hope that what I do create continues to resonate with, you know, collectors, with other people who view the work in different venues, that it will that they'll walk by the painting and something will grab them, and they're going to stop, and they're going to want to look at it. That, to me, is great success as an artist, and it tends to feed into all the other areas that make us feel like we are doing something that is giving back to the world around us, because I do believe that we need Things to uplift us. We need things to encourage us. That's why I personally don't do a lot of dark stuff. Now that's not to say that I don't paint paintings where maybe a person looks sad or there's something going on that you know that's can speak to us, and there's a lot of beauty in that also. But for me personally, there is enough darkness around me that I want to paint things that are going to bring joy and encouragement and light, and I do not feel like that is a superficial silly thing to do. I feel like. We have to have beauty to survive. Why do people go into an inner city, let's say, and plan a flower garden for the people live there. Why don't we say, well, that's not you're just planting flowers. How do you think that's going to enrich people's lives? Because beauty enriches our lives, and it gives us something to hold on to, to get through any dark days that we have, and it still gets us through the beautiful days that we have. So no matter what, it's a win, win, and that's what I see as success for me personally, and not ever lose the wonder at being able to pick up whatever it is, a paintbrush, a palette knife, and do something creative on a surface in front of me, to have that that is pretty awesome. To be able to just have the the ability. And I, I don't mean awesome, like, Oh, I think I'm awesome. I mean the fact that I am free to do that even is success in and of itself, because there may be times where people can't do that in their lives, depending on health or whatever is going on. So that alone, I count that a success, that I'm able to sit at the easel and have the opportunity to do some of these things,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:31:27

yeah, yeah. Again, it's that fulfillment, that freedom, that sharing. It's so important. And I agree, what's really funny too, is that a lot of artists are quite youthful, if that makes sense, like throughout their entire lives. And I think because painting can be such a like, yeah, it's a different type of stress, but that sense of fulfillment and personal success kind of like how you're describing I think it really does keep people more active and youthful than you know, being buried under stress and sadness and all of these you know, emotions that aren't necessarily bringing beauty, right? But I agree that, you know, having that way to share beauty, and that creation of beauty, and that exposure to also being in the moment, just something that a lot of us do where, oh, wow, look at the way the light is hitting the tree, or look at the way that the water reflections are creating this beautiful effect, right? Being so tuned into that, I think, also keeps us so alive and happy. And you know, it can be hard. Not gonna say it's not hard.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:32:40

Well, it doesn't just that. There are days of the easel that are not done, that you know that mental This is hard work. It's a lot of that mental decision making and so many and there are many times where what you see in your mind's eye is not even close. Okay, that's coming down the gap. However, nothing good in life comes from just easily. You have to work at it, and we have to take the hard days with the good days. And what I do like to say about that is, if you've had a hard day in the studio, before you leave the studio, try to do something that you love, even if it's just five minutes, even if it's a quick little drawing sketch or starting another painting, that will give you hope so that the next day, when you come back, you have it left with feeling like, Oh, I'm wasting the entire day on this piece.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:33:34

Yeah, I know that feeling quite well, but that's a great idea, yeah, having like, something nice to treat yourself with if you've had a hard day. I mean, I personally like to, you know, listen to a fun podcast and wash my brushes, like, clean them so that I'm, you know, kind of like, okay, I'm washing away all the sad parts of today. And something nice

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:33:57

and coffee is always a wonderful uplifter. I find that if I get a cup or a bar of chocolate, if things really get bad,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:34:05

makes a difference. Yeah? Just a little sweet, like, oh, here, here's a treat. You did great, yeah? Great effort. It sucks, but great effort, yeah, yeah, it's so much of being an artist is about that you can't be a horrible boss to yourself because it's bad for morale. You gotta really uplift.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:34:27

I have to sometimes remember, would I talk to a student the way that I might talk to myself? You know, when I go and teach a workshop, if I talk to people the way sometimes I do my own self talk, they're not going to be coming back. It's not going to be encouraging them. So I often will stop and I ask myself, How can I do this for somebody else? But I can't do it for myself. And what makes me think that if I talk that way to myself, it's going to motivate me, because it's not motivating me.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:35:00

Yes, exactly, yeah. I think at those moments, that's when you take a deep breath and imagine that you're, you know, two people, and then just like, try to phrase things like, Okay, what's going on? Let's try to do this so that, you know, we save this painting, or let's take a break, you know, just having that positive self talk, or at least, you know, a not hyper critical self talk is definitely,

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:35:26

I think, someone, and I don't remember who it was mentioned that they had this recording of, you know, people clapping and saying, Great job, great job. And they're cheering. And when they felt low, they would put that all in background. I thought, that's what I need. You know, we all need this. Yes, you did it. Oh, wow, you still, you know, good job. You learned a lot. Don't think about what didn't work in the paint or didn't, yeah, didn't work in the paint. Think about what did work in the painting and use that for the next one.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:35:54

Yes, yeah. That explains why sports teams have cheerleaders. Yes, I need to hire a group of cheerleaders. Cheerleading like, get my friends and just Okay, guys, I need you to stay here and cheer me up. Yeah, but yeah. And then, do you have any final because you've given us so many beautiful golden nuggets. Do you have a final piece of advice for anyone who wants to make a living as an artist.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:36:24

Well, I think having some a plan of your goals, thinking through your goals, is an important thing before you start being able to self motivate. That is a thing that that we all and that means different things to many of us. So once you start, don't let go of the goal, because it may not be attainable immediate, but that doesn't mean that it's not attainable. Use we know we were working towards it, and I would encourage you to know that it is possible. It's a wonderful thing to do, and there are ways to go about doing this, so depending on where you live, but also, we have wonderful networking opportunities today. Artists are able to connect with artists easier than they have before. You know, finding other art friends, who you can trust, who will encourage you. Another thing. And this may sound funny at first, but it's very valuable. If you are the best artist in the room, go to a different room. Yeah, I've heard that said so many times, the reason you want to hang out with the best is because, not only do you learn from them, they're wonderful people, first of all, because they love what they do. And I have there are very few artists that I've met who don't just want to share and be generous with what they've learned in their own lives, but they're some of the best friends I've ever made, and they will just watching how they live their lives and how they run their business. And do you think will encourage you and inspire you, give you new ideas of things that work? And it's not even asking them a whole bunch of questions. I mean, not that you can't ask questions, but sometimes you just learn just from watching what they do and just hanging out with them. And that's where you can learn from from their experience. So don't try to go it alone. Look for the best artist and wherever you are, and hang with them and see what you can glean from how they've gone about it, and then being aware of changes that are happening. Because I, even for me now, I've done this long enough that there there's so many changes with technology and other things, and so being open to that, and realizing that you're going to have to learn and figure out, but also not overburdening yourself, thinking that you have to be able to do all these things because you're not going to. No one can do it all. So picking and choosing your battles. What's going to be the most important way for you to get the word out and then focus on whether it's a social media channel or if it's your advertising, or whatever you're going to do make it so it's doable, because if you start off and you want to be a successful artist, you want to make a career of it, but you've made the mountain so tall and you're not able to, you put these things in front of you that are not attainable because you just overburdened. You're not going to be able to stick with it. And really, perseverance is. Very important in wanting to go out there and do it, and it's well worth it. And the reward is, I wouldn't change it for anything I thought. Would I go back and do things differently? And this is what I've wanted to do. So if you want to do it, you've just got to go for it. Yes.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:40:21

Yes, absolutely. I think everything you said is so true. I think it's so easy for you know, especially artists who are very, very eager to make things happen now, now, now, because instant gratification is a big problem these days, has always been, but especially now because social media and everything just feels like it's moving at a faster pace, when really it's, you know, slow and steady. You know the fable of the tortoise and the hare. You all know it. Small steps. Small steps really do get you to where you want to be in a we don't

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:40:58

want to burn out. If you burn out, you're not going to get to your goal. So it does go against the culture being that slow and steady, but that is where you make the progress. Burning yourself out, you're not going to make the progress.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:41:14

Yeah, I mean, if you burn yourself out, you're not you're not going to be able to do stuff for even longer. So it's almost like a backwards thing where, like, if you push too hard, suddenly you're out of commission for a while. So it's better to just break it down actionable steps, and then you know it, before you know it, you're where you were hoping to be anyway, and sometimes maybe sooner, sometimes right on time. Or, you know these things, they take time. I had a teacher in one of the academies who said it takes at least 10 years to really get going as an artist, from the time you start really putting in the work with your craft to when you're finally selling and starting your career, 10 years. You know, that's a good one.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:41:58

Come back to a goal. So there have been many times where, if you don't, times before, where I had a goal I wasn't able to meet it. That didn't mean that I let go of it, I put it aside, I continue to hone my skills, and then I came back to it until I could meet that goal. So it isn't this idea of, oh, because I didn't meet it my first time out, I can't do it. No, you just you bide your time, you get better, and you come back to it, and then it's much more joyous when you meet it, because you know that it wasn't just boom, it was you're hanging in there, and that perseverance that made the difference. And it's always sweeter. It is

Laura Arango Baier: 1:42:44

yes, yes, it's it's the perseverance too, and motivation, the drive that just, you know, you gotta just keep on, keeping on, yeah, um, but yeah. And then I wanted to ask you, do you have any upcoming shows or workshops?

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:43:00

I actually wrote myself notes so I won't forget, not that I forget about. But you know, it's a lot right now, one of three of my pieces are in the WashU Museum of Contemporary Art in their Angie exhibition, and that's going to go through the end of December. I'm very excited about this exhibition. One of my pieces won second place, so that was pretty awesome. And all three are our finalists in the show. But it's a beautiful exhibition. I just received my catalog in the mail, and I have to tell you, stellar artists are in this exhibition. Incredible work, really worth seeing. So if anyone is in that part of Wisconsin, or even if it's drivable to where you are, I recommend going and checking that out. And I also have work at gallery DK Contemporary Gallery in Marietta, Georgia, which is a wonderful gallery. I love being a part of that. So I have pieces there. I have my website, Chantel Lynn Barber, com, and you know, you can see some of my work on the website. And I also have some upcoming workshops coming up. I've got one that's going to be in Fort Worth, Texas in January. It's a two day workshop actually, email Linda Morrison is hosting this for me. And I believe those dates are the 24th of January and the 25th so that's coming up. And then there is a zoom workshop that's going to be the end of May. I think that's the 29th through the 31st through leading edge art workshops, this wonderful Canadian workshop, I just they're fabulous, and that will be a three day zoom experience. So if you want to do something online, you know that's a another great opportunity. And. And of course, I'm all, I try to keep up with social media, posting things. It's the fine art of Chantelle. Sometimes I'm really good about that, and other times it just has to kind of go to the side because I'm doing other things. And it's that, that, you know, balancing act of trying to keep it all flowing. But there I've the website is the one of the best ways to stay in touch. And it's just, it's fun that we have that ability to, you know, touch people with, I mean, anyone can find it, and it's, it's great. I have tested this. I'll say to someone, you know my name, and I'll say, oh, yeah, you know, if you get a chance, you can look it up. And before I'm even done talking, they've already pulled up the website. So I know it's pretty it must be pretty easy to find, because they've got it, and I haven't even given them all the information. So I think it's pretty easy to stay connected in today's world.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:46:03

Absolutely yes. And I will also be including all of your links in the in the show notes, yes, and so people can go check out your beautiful work as well, because I think it is absolutely stunning. My reaction, of course, was Oh my gosh. I can't believe this is acrylic. I still have the same reaction. And I believe our listeners and viewers can have the same reaction as well, and they can send it for your newsletter and go check out all your beautiful work. Sign up for workshops and learn from your skills. And yeah, so thank you so much, Chantal for all of these golden nuggets I've literally my paper is covered in notes right now.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:46:43

So pleasure talking with you, Laura. I've enjoyed it so much, and I'm glad that we have this opportunity. Isn't it wonderful that we can connect through zoom and be able to visit with someone, and it's connecting us worldwide. I just think that's so fabulous. It's no longer, gosh, I got to get an airplane to go see this person. No, we can. I mean, that's still wonderful, of course, to be in person, but we can connect and have it's just great that we've got this opportunity to be able to share our love and our joy for creating art and inspire, hopefully, each other along in this journey.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:47:28

Yes, I totally agree. You know, being able to talk to artists like you and I personally benefit, of course, because I also am an artist, so I also get a lot of this advice from you and from all the other artists. I'm like, Oh my gosh, but then it's also beautiful to share it with all our listeners and other artists who are also listening, trying to find their path, or already on the path, and they hear something that inspires them. So yes, I agree. This is a very wonderful opportunity. So thank you so much.

Chantel Lynn Barber: 1:48:01

Well, I've loved being here, and I appreciate having this visit.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:48:07

Yes, thank you. Thank you to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you've enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.