Christopher Remmers: 0:00

That question of, like, why is it that you want to be an artist, and what is it that you want to contribute? I think that's a really important thing, because I think it kind of elevates this place of, you're entering into an arena and you want to be additive to that, right, like you want to and I think that if you, if you're coming from that place of wanting to contribute, then invariably, like, eventually, you become sort of a leader and a voice in that space. And that is, like, helps in so many ways, and how, how you can

Laura Arango Baier: 0:35

succeed in the world. Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the BoldBrush. My name is Laura Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world, in order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Christopher remers, a full time painter and educator based in Bellingham, Washington, known for his style of mythological realism. His work explores themes of meaning, making myth and storytelling, drawing inspiration from thinkers like Joseph Campbell, Christopher emphasizes the importance of commitment to craft deep, personal exploration and creating art that connects people to awe and inspiration. He tells us his opinion about the use of AI in art, seeing it as a tool, but advocating for authentic creative process and originality. Christopher also stresses the importance of adaptability, boldness and building relationships in the art world, sharing his experience of transitioning from a builder to a full time artist. In addition to his artistic practice, Christopher prioritizes quality and relationship building in his career and encourages artists to take their work seriously and adapt to changing industry trends. Finally, Christopher promotes his upcoming project, water wars, how to avoid focusing on water rights in Bellingham, and mentions his conscious creativity Academy and involvement with the conru Art Foundation in Seattle. Welcome Christopher to the BoldBrush show again. How are you today?

Christopher Remmers: 2:11

I'm doing great. I'm so happy to be here. It's always a pleasure.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:14

Yeah, it's always awesome to have you, because I hold your work in such high regard. I think you're one of the only people that I've seen who paints at the scale that is, like my dream scale as a realist painter with those beautiful imaginary themes, that I'm also like, Ah, I'm looking at your work like, yes, yes, we need this. We need this because it's inspiring. And I'm also, you know, kind of like leaning into the imaginary realism world a little bit more. And I see you as one of those beacons of this is the path that I definitely feel myself falling into a lot more. So thank you for being on the show again.

Christopher Remmers: 2:56

Yeah, yeah. Like I said, My pleasure well, and it's appropriate, I decided to have this as my backdrop and get ready, because there's, there's more com and I've been kind of incubating on and some stuff for a while, and getting ready to be pulling the trigger on a lot more kind of large scale narrative work. That's that I'm really excited to start working on.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:15

So yeah, yeah. And last time we had you on the podcast, which was a couple years ago, we talked so much about chaos. And then you also mentioned your project about making paintings an immersive experience, which we can totally dive into a little bit later. But first, I do want to ask you, for our listeners who maybe aren't aware of who you are, do you mind telling us who you are and what you do?

Christopher Remmers: 3:38

Yeah, absolutely. Christopher Remmers, and yeah, I'm a full time painter and educator living here in the tip top, Pacific Northwest, Bellingham, and where I've got a it, where I'm at right now, I've got a gallery in a studio right downtown. And yeah, I've been at this for a while now, about seven years, been at it full time, and that's been going great. It's been a wild ride, and been running my academy now for about three years. And, yeah, yeah. I mean that, nothing more to say about that. I mean, I, you know, I coined my my style is mythological realism, just in the sense that, you know, a lot of the inspirations around the work that I'm creating is derived from sort of the world of myth, as you would think about it, through the context of like Joseph Campbell and, you know, navigating this place of like, what is, what is the myth that we're living out in our world? And like, how does that play into symbolism and storytelling and metaphor? And like, looking for kind of that relational presence and how I can get people to connect to the work has been a big inspiration for me.

Laura Arango Baier: 4:58

Yes, and it's, it's fair. Noticeable in your work, as well, how you definitely play around with those archetypes. And I really love that, because I think one of the really beautiful qualities about your work, that I enjoy is it has a mystical quality to it. It doesn't like, it's, it's definitely realism, like where you you recognize the people, but at the same time it's, it's very much out of this world. It's very timeless in so many ways. And I really love that you mentioned Joseph Campbell, because I absolutely love his work and the hero's journey. Because I think today, and I don't know if maybe you agree with this, but I think today, a lot of people seem a little bit, I don't know if it's because of technology, but they seem a little bit like out of touch with the hero's journey as a path of self growth, and I find that more and more artists like you are really pursuing it as a way to kind of bring back that inspiration to society. Would you agree with that?

Christopher Remmers: 5:57

100% I think that hits the nail right on the head. You know, there's a there's a few little phrases that I live by, but one is this idea is, like art as a vehicle for meaning making. And that when, you know, kind of, when we look back through history and look at times where we could see art at its zenith, right? And like, really, kind of functioning and thriving at its best, I think I've always believed that art is how we enshrine that which is the most meaningful to us, right? And, you know, it starts with story, and then, you know, the things that we want to remember, that we want to continue to be inspired by, we we envelop them in beauty and and so that's kind of the main thrust behind, like, the work that I'm creating is like, how do I get people to connect back to that? And then, then how that dovetails into myth? Like Joseph Campbell described as, like, myth being the desired future, future potential of what you aim at. And and it's not just simply that it's like, it's the larger than life representation, because that's what creates awe and inspiration and keeps us driven towards aiming for that thing, because it's exciting, it's exhilarating. It's, you know, we look at it simply, a lot of times it's just fantasy. But it's like, you think about what fantasy does for us when we're experiencing it, whether it's through a movie or story. Is it like it inspires us to be better than we are, to be, to go beyond what we think we're capable of. And I think art is such a powerful catalyst for that,

Laura Arango Baier: 7:31

absolutely, absolutely, I think definitely, the arts as well. But I find that things like painting, like your type of painting, and as well as music, I think are some of the most powerful messengers for narrative. I understand, you know, story, and storytelling is also part of that, but at the same time, you know the human the human language, is such a I like to say that it's a very poor translation of what reality is, because it not every word can encompass the complete meaning of something, and I find that pure imagery or just a sound can really envelop you into a feeling that is in itself indescribable, but we do our best to try to describe it. But yeah, and then I did wonder too, because, of course, we're talking about this now, and I can tell that this has been many, many years of your own self reflection, study, personal obsession, but when did you begin to follow the path of the artist?

Christopher Remmers: 8:36

I mean, that's been a, like, a thread that's been going on for a long time. I mean, ever since, like, my early 20s, you know, you know, it start, I always like to share the stories like art came about, kind of from a place of competition with my brother, because we, you know, my mother taught us all, me and my siblings like art, you know, she was a painter. And my brother and I kind of really took off with it in our own way. And he was older than I was, and, or he is older than I am, and there was this place of like, Oh, he's doing really cool stuff. I want to do this really cool stuff. And then I quickly found, I was like, wow, I really enjoy this. And, and it was pretty quickly that for me, I found that, and I've always tried to live true to this, that, like art isn't this other thing that's separate from my life, and it is an extension, and is actually a tool in how I navigate the things in my life that I hold dear, primarily, kind of my own kind of philosophical spiritual exploration, and that, like art was how I would kind of, like dive in and kind of capture those critical moments and times in my life, and then to find, find, like, how that could relate to other people, right, which I think, like so much of art is. Relational. You know, when we enter into the public domain, we want to do it as, like, full time professional artists. It's a huge part of it is relational. And so, yeah, I think that's where it kind of began, and this deep exploration. But it wasn't, you know, it was like years, maybe a decade later that it really started to become more of a serious enterprise where I was like, Okay, I I can see this really clearly as being like an act of service, right? And that's what I'm I'm trying to do more and more now, like my work is like my endeavors are now more like public facing in the sense of like the commission clients and the kind of projects I'm engaged with, or trying to help others tell stories that are, I think are impactful in the culture. So anyway, yeah, it's been, it's been a long journey, and it's always evolving. And I was just sharing at a event that I co hosted over the weekend about this thread that I follow, that art is an intrinsic part of, which is, you know, what I call the mystery, is that when these moments come up, or these experiences come up that are kind of in alignment with the intentions that I put out into the world, like I just, I just don't question them. I just move forward and follow them and see what unveils and like, you know, my art has been that, you know, I will the first painting that I think catalyzed, that was my painting Zane, which was, like, my first really, really large scale piece that was just going from this place of intuition, after having built, like a set of skills and like a language, and then just going for it. And like everything that's come since then has been, has been, has been part of playing into the mystery.

Laura Arango Baier: 11:49

Yeah, yeah. And then just you mentioning the mystery like that, it kind of also reminds me a little bit of the concept of the sublime. You know, that that what I find interesting about the sublime is that it is very much like that. It's a mystery, right? It is something that speaks deeply to what it means to be human, or what it means to be a part of the world around you. And it's the feeling you get when you see beautiful landscape or some of your paintings, you look and you're just like, you're really brought in, and you're taken aback. And I think that really is one of those things that still speaks to people like ever since ancient times, is that mystery and that sublime and, yeah, I think it's, it's admirable and pretty awesome that you just decided, You know what, I'm going to do, this, I'm going to make the jump, I'm gonna make this insanely huge painting, or this, this crazy concept, and you went for it, and then now here you are making more and more incredible paintings, and you're continuing this ever evolving process of there's more and then there's more than there's more. And I actually wanted to ask you that about your process as well, because I think it's, it's one of those daunting things for so many painters out there to decide, hey, I want to paint massive How has your process evolved over time, and why did you decide large scale for your work?

Christopher Remmers: 13:17

Well, I'll start with the last question first, which like, Why did I decide large scale? Because that's been kind of the thread for a while. I think it was influenced by my mentor and teacher, Tenaya Sims. You know, the reason I decided to go and study with him is because he worked large scale and also kind of threaded that line between like classical, kind of rigorous methodology of like, kind of the Atelier structure, while bringing in like imaginative elements, which I'm sure we'll talk more about. But I also think kind of the themes that I play with, I think they're just more appropriately conveyed on on large scale, right? And I think kind of back to what we were talking about before around, you know, things that people connect with in relationship, in that and that, like, I there's something particular about figurative work, representational figurative work that I think is really potent for people, that it's like they can easily see themselves in it. That's different than, say, an abstract where, you know, where you were talking about how like, with the written word, there's so much left to open to translation, and where, I think, when we do work more like this, it's, you know, one of the things that I do is create multiple characters that embody a particular archetypal quality that like gives it opportunity for people to see themselves As one of those characters in the story, and then, and then the work can start to do its work on people, right? It like, starts to like, open for them in a way that's unexpected and mysterious. And I think when at scale of this kind, I think it's easier for people to like, tap into that, that sense. Sense of of awe and mystery and relationship, right? It's, you know, especially it's like the figure at like, at life light or life size quality. It's like, oh, I, you know, I just think it kind of, it connects a little bit more. And I think also, when you're trying to get people to immerse themselves in an experience, it also helps hold the container for that, you know, my dream would be, and like, what I'm aiming at is, like, to fill a room of large narrative paintings that tell a story as you go through, right, you know? And this is a little bit of what we talked about last time. And, yeah, so I think it's, it's just to like, give people the opportunity to like fully be immersed in it.

Laura Arango Baier: 15:45

Yeah, and I love what you just mentioned about walking into a room and being surrounded by images that tell a story and that it's really interesting in the sense that, like, historically, humans have done that, and we, you know, the best example would probably be like churches, right where you walk around in a church and you see all of the parts of the Bible of Jesus's basically his journey, because he himself is a representation of the hero's journey. And, yeah, I think a lot of the what you just said is just so reminiscent of that that also the torch that we're bearing that is a continuation of this long held tradition of storytelling, you know, like I, like maybe our very distant ancestors, who told stories around a campfire and then drew on the walls all the way to us, you know, making paintings that try to speak to something deeper about what it means to be part of this world, which is absolutely awesome. I feel like I keep saying that, but it's, I mean it,

Christopher Remmers: 16:49

yeah, yeah. I hear you. I'm right there with you. Yeah. I one thing I wanted to speak to about that too, is, you know, and I think we'll get, we'll get into more of this in terms of, like, you know, deciding to take on the path of an artist and what that looks like, and recommendations and all that. But this idea around, like, when we see that quality and paintings that you spoke of, you know, the sublime and the timelessness and those are like threads that I've always tried to, like, hold in this kind of delicate, but like, important, urgent sense is, is like, a commitment to it, right? It's that, like, in the art that is, like, really moved me. And what I try to have in my work is, like, it's commitment on all levels. It's commitment to the story, it's commitment to the craft and like, and then a deep investigation into that. And you can tell when you see work where people have done that, you know, it's not like this kind of cursory or like surface level thing, or like they throw out some, you know, seemingly kind of profound concept of like I'm trying to convey, you know, humans unity with all of the universes. Like, this common thing I see, it's like, yeah, but really, like, what have you done to investigate that on a level that's below, that's above the like, the superficial, and then really tried to, like, extract that in your process as an artist. And like, really tried to, like, answer those questions on a deep level. And I think it's not just exclusive to painting, it's any field that we exist. And you can tell when people have gone in and done the work, and because it like, you know, you know, there's like, the sense of gratitude, like, Thank you for showing that to me, yeah. And so it's like, there's that, that quality, the ineffable, right, that we can, kind of, we can see in that, that, I think, is that's what makes, makes it art. Exactly.

Laura Arango Baier: 18:47

Yeah, it's like the feeling you get when you first watch Lord of the Rings of Oh my gosh. This is a true work of art. And, like, even the actors, I remember seeing, like, interviews with them, just saying, like this, these movies are going to go down in history, and they were totally right because of that sublime quality that they have, that there was, I feel like you know what you just said, makes so much sense, because that sublime quality really does go hand in hand with love and that genuine, authentic, like obsession With this specific thing, which, with that study, with that I don't know what right, which is very that's what I love about the sublime as well, that I'm actually reading a very good book on it, and the author says that there's really no proper definition for the sublime. You can only ever find examples of it, which I think is it's almost like one of it's like having a dream, you know, where you you everything makes sense in the dream, but then when you really think about it in the morning, you're like, I don't know what I was looking at. You know what I mean? Right?

Christopher Remmers: 19:52

Yeah, well, and it's like, you know, I hear this a lot, like, in the realm of, like, kind of the contemplative arts of, like Zen and, like, meditation. Where, like, you know, the the said guru or teacher is always saying, like, I can only point, I can only point towards the thing. But then we can dance circles around the thing, but to actually grasp and like, know, the thing is, like, on a pure individual basis of how we dance that dance, to discover what that means for ourselves. And it's, that's what's so great about it. It's like, if we could define it like it wouldn't be, it wouldn't be what it is. You know exactly.

Laura Arango Baier: 20:32

Yeah, it's, it's fascinating, because it also gives that, that feeling of like Plato's cave, and then once you're out of the cave and you're trying to you know you you understand the sublime and how to portray it, it feels like it's really hard to describe to people who haven't really experienced it or are still in the process of trying to experience it. But, yeah, it's very ineffable. It's just Oh, and I think again, to bring it back to your your work, it's just so cool to see someone who's actually really attempting and succeeding at applying the sublime qualities about life and archetypes into artwork, which, in my opinion, that's one of the hardest things as an artist. That's like next level, because it's especially for narrative painting. If anyone out there is interested in narrative painting, definitely go check out Christopher's work, because it's amazing. But also, the other thing I really wanted to ask, which has become a bit of a contentious topic, has been AI, because I think, you know, there are so many people out there who hate it. Some people really love it. Some people are indifferent. How have you found because your genre is specifically one that I think AI has affected the most in terms of fantasy aspects, the imaginary aspects. How has AI kind of affected your work, your process. What are your thoughts on?

Christopher Remmers: 22:02

Ai, yeah, yeah. I, you know, I think I'm careful with it. I use it. And, you know, I've said this before, but, you know, I always think of the phrase that, or the quote is, be weary of unearned wisdom. And, you know, the way that I kind of translate that into, like, how we use AI, is that, I think there's this, there's this temptation that, when you dive into that, that, like, it can do all of the work to, like, create, like, a successful, compelling composition, right? And I think it does do a good job in that, like, it's aggregating across the multitudes of like, well known and successful compositions. And can, you know, put that together in a matter of mere seconds or minutes. But I but I also think, you know, there's a couple things happening there. That one, it can kind of trap us in a sense of, like, stagnating our creative capacity. And like, you know, it's like the idea, to me that's that's always happening, which is, like, there's the artists that kind of step outside of the norm to tread new pathways and to like go into this path of self discovery, to find something that feels authentic and true and real, and all these things that we were talking about, and then they emerge with something that catches fire. And then there's all the people that want to essentially copy and emulate that, you know, they're like, Oh, well, this person's getting all this popularity, and I want to like, but that, like none of those ever have the essence of what that that artist was able to capture? And I think it's the same thing with AI that that like, it's, you know, it's evolving in its like definition and its clarity, but it's not evolving towards, like, new places that are that are presenting ideas in a new way, only, like, compositionally effective, you know what I mean? And so it's like, there's something that you're like, oh, wow, that looks really good. But it's not like, it's not pushing the envelope in creative ways. And so that's one thing. But I think again, it's really easy for people that are in the early stages, and they're struggling in that phase of creative ideation to just have that do the work for you. And I think that's where it's the most dangerous on the creative front right is that, I think that is, to me, it's the most cherished, like valuable thing of being a human is our creative capacity, and I think that the more convenience we bring into our world, the more that, like it weakens us. And so I don't think that that that means like, Oh, don't use it. I just think use it as a tool to help you kind of navigate. Things in terms of, like, if one of the things you're trying to do is you create a composition, and then, as an artist, you have to resource yourself to go and find reference images and build vision boards and like, figure out how you're going to, like, create these particular lighting scenarios within your compositions and like, and that's where I like to use it, where there's this painting right over here that, you know, that was kind of an experimentation. I'll send images. It's called, oh god. I can't even remember the name of the painting. I'll send it to you. But anyway, I like had this idea in my sketch of like, creating these, like glowing like flowers, right? That, like, had a light glowing from inside of them and and so I was like, Okay, I'm gonna let go and I'm gonna get these flowers to store, and I'm gonna create these cool lighting conditions in the studio. And but then for me, I was like, Oh, well, let's try entering a prompt and, like, see if I can kind of create it that way. And that felt like a healthy way to use the medium in the way that wasn't it wasn't detracting from, like me having to do the work of creative thinking of like the composition and the details and like the overall design of the piece, which to me, is like that I don't let AI kind of infiltrate that part of my creative process, because I can tell that it's damaging, right? So, you know, beyond that, you know, it's, yeah, I that's, that's as far as I've gone in terms of navigating my, my thoughts on, on it, and I think it, you know, there's, like, the kind of, the copyright issue and like, stealing artists, images and things like that, which I have a lot of concern about, and that concern extends beyond art and to the greater world in general, which I think that, like, it's just technology that we need to be really mindful about regulating as it advances, because I think it can do a lot of damage if we're not careful.

Laura Arango Baier: 27:00

Absolutely yes. And you mentioned a bunch of things in there that I think are definitely worth noting. Namely, you know how you mentioned that AI really does feel like, it like, yeah, compositionally can work, like you said, but it's like, it's missing that. And this is going to sound very funny, that soul, right? That human consciousness, that I find, I found it so interesting, how many times I've heard other people also say the same thing, which is, they can tell it's aI because it's missing something like, it's a very good reproduction of, you know, a recreation of something, but at the same time, there's something missing, and I don't know if it maybe also ties into that idea of the sublime human experience. I mean, you can't really imitate that, which I find very interesting. But yeah, I totally agree. I think AI, I worry that AI is going to kind of go into a bit of like, and I like to say that life kind of works like a pendulum sometimes that, you know, the pendulum is going to go way too deep in one direction with AI, and then eventually it's going to obviously become a problem as it is already becoming, and then it'll, you know, hit back, I hope, because, like human, the human experience, the human condition. It will fight against this, because there's, I mean, you can't silence human like real human communication and thought and creativity so easily with AI, right? Because you can tell it's like this uncanny valley sort of thing, where you look at it and you know, it's like, there's something not, not right here. So I think that's, yeah, I hope that that pendulum just flips back. And I think the one positive thing that I have noticed, I don't know if you've noticed it on your end, is that it's making a lot more people appreciate real handcraft. I have a lot of friends. Yeah, I have a lot of friends who are like, I hate AI. I love my artist friends. I love my handcraft friends, and we need to return back to human craft. There's kind of like this, I feel like there's this sort of like an end to the hyper industrialization of everything, and AI is just exacerbating

Christopher Remmers: 29:22

it, yeah, yeah. I totally agree. And you know, a couple other things in there, you know, one, I would kind of put to put a question out to artists in general, you know, that are tinkering with the technology, or maybe not just tinkering, but they're just kind of bullheadedly, like using as much as they possibly can is just to think of like, your role in all of this and like and like, where are you as artist in that process, you know, and Are you an artist, or are you attempting to create art, or are you just a craftsman and that like. Like when you're using this work, and then, you know, it's like, you kind of come up with a prompt, and then you come up with some like explanation of what that means, just to kind of put your stamp of like, this is me and the work I'm creating, and then doing the best job you can to copy that image is just to simply ask, like, is this? Does this feel like your greatest creative offering and expression, or you feeling like you're trying to get away with something and you're just trying to like, yeah, just do the bare minimum, right? Because I think if that's the case, then yeah, that's going to be a short lived endeavor for you, and it's not really contributing to the to the overall impact and movement of art in general, you know, and it's fine, like, if it's more that you're just into the craft and want to create pretty pictures, and that's fine, but I just think we all need to be increasingly more aware of, like, what we're contributing, if we're calling ourselves artists, and How are we, like, really stepping up to the plate to do something that's meaningful? You know, I think that's the division there. And, you know, on the other point, there's this book I read some time ago. It's called, be So Good They Can't Ignore You, which I talk about, I talk about this a lot to my students, but which, in and of itself, that phrase, I think, is like a good way of, kind of leading as as a as a craftsman and as an artist, right? And I think people need to take that more seriously. But he, in that book, he talks about, sort of the the increasing hyper specialization that's happening as all these new technologies emerge, and that, like, the value of being a traditional craftsman and like a maker of paintings, you know, which is like, still crazy, you know, that we're still just like, using these tools in such a simplified manner with all this other stuff that's happening. But that that's going to become increasingly more valuable. I think people are going to become more and more and more hungry, the more digitized our world becomes, and to like come and actually experience work in person, and the tactile sense of like, how it was sculpted and created, like is always going to be something that that people appreciate and value. And so if anything like, you know, for folks that are like, scared of AI, it's like, yeah, it's gonna have its time, and it's gonna but, like, this is always gonna be here, and it's, it's caused me to actually double down on, like, how much I really love the tradition of the craft of oil painting.

Laura Arango Baier: 32:41

I love that, because that just totally reminded me of the 1850s 60s, when the camera happened, and all the artists, of course, lost their jobs, lost their minds. But at the same time, the paint tube was invented, and therefore more colors were available. And then art became, had to become something else. Yeah, you know, the wealthy would go and get their pictures done, but it didn't stop people from still getting their portraits done anyway, or from painters creating beautiful pieces and using new colors and exploring things. And that's, of course, led us to today, which we have, I think, completed that evolution, and now we're, of course, harkening back to more of that classical style because of the very easy accessibility of the camera. Right now, people go back and say, oh, I want to get my portrait done by an artist, because it's so easy to take a picture, and painting has a different quality to it. It's there's just something not to hate on photography, of course, but not everyone can have a paintbrush and a canvas in their phone, right? So it's a lot easier to look at painting. It's like, wow, look at this incredible discipline. Of course, there are professional photographers, and they are amazing, but we can co exist.

Christopher Remmers: 34:04

Well, exactly. I think that's that's the important thing here. And I think this kind of dovetails into, like, Business Talk, a little bit of, like, you're not trying to make it for everybody, you know, there's a lot of people on this planet and a lot of different preferences. And like, you know, yes, there are people that like, are going to celebrate technology, and there's going to be machines that are making oil paintings, and there's all that going to happen. There's going to be people that love and celebrate that, and there's also going to be people that love this and continue to love and want to support that, and those are the people that we want to continue making the work for. You know, it's relational, like, who is, who are the people that are going to relate to that? That's who I want to talk to,

Laura Arango Baier: 34:46

and they are out there, which is also one of those things that I think a lot of people maybe worry that they aren't. I've had a lot of artists that I've talked to who worry about that. And I mean, I get it. Because sometimes it does feel like it's hard to find those people, but they are out there. And the best thing you could do is, of course, continue to use the internet, continue to build communities, go out and meet people, go out to gallery shows for that. And actually, you mentioned something else previously about AI and how you know what it what it means to be an artist. And I think the other big risk, and this is also going to dip into the the more business slash marketing talk side of this is the new, or not so new, but the this hyper obsession that people have with productivity that we have today, and I think that that's guilty, yeah, and that's totally fine, but I mean cutting corners, type of obsession with product, oh, right, right, right, that AI allows people to do, which I understand. You know, time is our greatest currency. But at the same time, I find that, because I I also take part in, like, besides, you know, painting, I love sewing, I love knitting, cooking, and if there's one lesson that I have learned from all of these things that I'm sure you can agree with considering your work, is you have to go slow in some senses for the work to really be good, like you can't cut corners, especially at The beginning, because that's where you really build that foundation for a really excellent painting or sewing project, knitting project, a really good soup, right? I mean, obviously it can vary, but in general, taking care of things, in my opinion, is what makes you go faster, like you got to go slow, to go fast, right? Which is kind of ironic, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christopher Remmers: 36:45

Totally agree, you know. And I think about that, like one of the primary things that you know, like as I work with students on is that that process that exists between I have an idea in my head and I'm starting the painting that whole space that, I think, even prior to AI and all this, is like, you know, there was this for people that start to get, you know, think, like, I want to be an artist. I want to be a painter. And then they, like, they have an idea, and they just jump into a blank canvas with the hopes that it's gonna like, it's gonna turn out well, and that's unlikely, you know, and then you look at like, the works of art that have inspired you, that made you want to become an artist, or whatever, and you look at the process that those artists went through in order to create those pieces. Was exhaustive, is obsessive? It was, you know, it's like deep into iteration and exploration of all of these different things, right? And, you know, like, a great example is, you know, is like to test the idea before you execute. You know, it's like that you look at the like, you know, measure twice, cut once. You know, it's like. You're not going to go build a house without a set of blueprints. You're not like, think of any other industry you know that like that is applicable through and so it's like, have an idea, do sketches, do color studies, do value studies, like, do mock ups, do like, iterations on that until, like, you're like, Okay, that works, you know, and and people are so, you Know, they have a lot of aversion to that, because they think it's going to waste time, it's going to go, it's going to, you know, slow down their process. And it's like, what I say to them is like, you know, would you rather create six paintings over the next six months that are mediocre, or would you create one painting that completely changes your life, and like elevates your career, that gets you to paint and and design better than you've ever done anything before. Because then, you know, because then the process is like, now you now. It's just about, how do I refine this? How do I like, you know, make that more efficient, and then like, and actually be able to become masterful at this process, you know. And so it's like anything you know. It's like the the the initial work is always frustrating and challenging and like, but it's the threshold that we have to cross in order to be, to be, you know, above average. Because, you know, average is like what you know, when you're it's what most people are unwilling to do to get the results

Laura Arango Baier: 39:21

right? Exactly, yes. Oh, that is so true. If you've been enjoying the podcast and also want to be able to ask our guests live questions, then you might want to join our monthly BoldBrush live webinars, where our guest artists discuss marketing tips, share inspiring stories and answer your burning questions in real time. Whether you're a seasoned painter or just starting your creative journey, this is your chance to connect, learn and spark new ideas, and whether you're stuck on a canvas or building your creative business, this is where breakthroughs happen. Don't miss out. Ignite your passion and transform your art practice by joining us. Our next BoldBrush Live Webinar is coming up on the sixth of November with our sport. Special guest, Steve Atkinson, you can find the sign up link in the show notes. At BoldBrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the BoldBrush, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com that's BoldBrush. Show.com the BoldBrush show is sponsored by Faso. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile, friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor, the art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast, that's faso.com forward slash podcast. And it's also, I think, encouraging, and it should be encouraging that to really focus on making, like you said, is it better to make one beautiful piece and it takes some time, or do you want to make a bunch of really not great pieces? I mean, which one's a better use of of your time and energy? Obviously, the one amazing piece, right? And then I think it's really interesting too, that the other part is, even if you do settle down on, like, the final, final, right, it'll still gonna change. It's still gonna change while you're working on it. Because there's, it's inevitable, like, there things evolve as they go because, and I like to say that the reason your work changes so much, even moment to moment, is because you, yourself are still a human being who's growing and learning and experiencing life, right? Your artwork is a reflection of you. That's why you know you can work on a painting last year and then the next year you're like, I'm not doing that anymore, right, right? Otherwise we would just be this stagnant thing, and that wouldn't be much fun. Yeah? And then I also did want to ask you, what was it like for you when you made the jump into becoming a full time artist? Terrifying?

Christopher Remmers: 43:01

Yeah, it was a lot of things. It was terrifying, it was exhilarating, it was but it was, it was like, for me, it had to be like a pull off the band aid kind of thing, not a gradual thing, because I knew for myself and how I work, like I have to be all in, and the stakes have to be high so that, like, I'm, I'm I'm like, I'm in it. I'm in it all the way. And, you know, because I think if you out, and I'm not saying that, I recommend this for everybody, right? Like, I'm not telling you to go, like, ruin yourself financially in pursuit of your art. But you know, for me, like, it was helpful to know that, like, that had to be a component that I had to, like, learn how to make this work, both, like, financially and creatively. And, yeah, I mean, you know, and people, some people have heard my story before, but, you know, I was, I had a previous career. I was a I was a builder, as a building contractor. And what, you know, I, and I really enjoyed it. You know, my whole thing has always been, I'm happy if I'm making things with my hands. And, you know, that was a different type of craftsmanship. And, but it wasn't the one. It wasn't like the hell yes, like, this is what I can imagine doing for the rest of my life. And, and I was thriving in that space. And I walked away from, you know, stability and security and like all of this, to pursue this. But there was, there was like a there was like a longing in me that was like it was actually breaking me by not actually listening to the call, right? And it felt like a very Joseph Campbell moment, like, on the threshold, the call to adventure, the refusal of the call, like that whole arc was like playing out in me. And I had like, a bit of a crisis, because I was denying that call for too long. And then I was just like, I have to go. I have to go all in and but, yeah, I I. It's for me, you know. And it wasn't that like I had been painting for a long time, right? Like I had been painting for a good decade before I decided to go in on it full time, and I'd been kind of testing it, and like, you know, one foot in, one foot out, and always had, like, a little room in my house where I could have a studio and play around with things. And so it's not like I was just going from scratch, and so that part was helpful. But I don't know if it's like, I think it's a mixture of luck and tenacity that, like, made things go really well for me on the onset, you know, like I went through the academy, and, I mean, even while I was in the academy, like my career started to take off, and things went really well for me, and for the most part, have always gone that way. I've had some scary moments along the way, but, you know, I, you know, I feel pretty confident that, yeah, I'm going to be stoked to be doing this until I die.

Laura Arango Baier: 46:05

Yeah, it's one of those things that I also tell my mom, like, I will die with a paintbrush in my hand. And I think it's one of those careers where, like, I think a lot of people, you know, kind of like, how you had that crisis that you mentioned right where it's like, I'm not in the right place. I this isn't where I'm supposed to be. Like, it's like, an unsettling feeling of, I can't be here. And I think a lot of people, they push through that and then at the, you know, in their death, but they might be like, Man, I should have taken that risk. And I think that's one of the things that I live by as well. Like, it will count for something to you anyway, like it's just, you know, if, if it terrifies you, it might be something worth doing if it's calling to you in that way. And I think that also adds to the hero's journey of every hero goes through that growth phase and that conflict phase, and of course, you get those mentors that you end up seeking out or find you somehow, that Joseph Campbell loves to mention as well, and things can oftentimes turn out right, as long as you know you're weighing those factors of like, well, I can't really afford a house, so maybe it would be best to either find a cheaper house or get a day job, which there's so many ways Of like, we live in a trailer, yeah? Oh my gosh. You got to do what you got to do? Yeah? Yeah, for sure. And the other thing is, I feel like a lot of those people who do fear the taking the risk, you know, they they always look forward to retirement. And I feel like, as an artist, you never really retire. That's not really a thing, because it's like, it's like, breathing, you know, you can't if you stop. I mean, it's over, right? But I'd rather, you know, paint and breathe until I can no longer do it. But, yeah, yeah, totally. And what would you say? Because, I mean, at this point, you know, you've been from what you mentioned, selling your work and making a good living from it for a while. What would you say have been some of the best approaches that you've taken to selling your work or getting your work out there?

Christopher Remmers: 48:13

There's so many. I mean, I think, yeah, it's absolutely related, but I think always prioritizing quality, you know, I know there's a lot of pressure on people, you know, in this game to, you know, go to market and sell paintings, right? And I, but I think for me, like I always prioritize. I was like, I have to get I have to the pieces, have to be exceptional. And, I mean, that's always a thing, like, it's always, as artists, you know, I think you can relate. Is, like, we're that's the primary is, like, how can I get better? Like, in being really picky and obsessive about, like, the quality and the esthetic and the beauty of of the thing, and, you know, it goes back to that same question. It's like, what are you doing if that's not what you're prioritizing, and are you just adding noise to the world? Are you contributing and elevating and and so I think that was, that was a big one, is that I took my time right to, like, make things the way that I felt like, did the vision justice before I started to bring it out into the world. So, so that's the big one. I think also being bold and brave, I think is really important. I think, you know, it's for a lot of artists and creatives, I think we kind of are prone towards, like, introversion, and so it's hard to put yourself out there in ways. But I'd say, you know, that was another thing I did early on, is like, recognize I was like, Wow, I'm terrible at public speaking. I feel really uncomfortable talking about my work. I feel uncomfortable about sales and all of this stuff. And so I was like, Well, I. That's the that's the first thing I need to think about. And so I, like, got to work, like, leveling up those skills so that I felt comfortable and I understood what it meant to like, you know, to be that way in the world, and to find and to realize that, you know, what I hear from a lot of artists is like, Oh, I just make work for myself. And, you know, we hear what's his face that, you know that, who's the music producer that wrote the book on creativity?

Laura Arango Baier: 50:29

That's hilarious. I literally have the book back there, Rick Rubin's Rick Rubin's,

Christopher Remmers: 50:32

right? You know, I think he's got a lot of good things to say. I also think he says a lot of things that are not helpful, and they're perpetuating an old paradigm for artists, and that, like when he says, art has to, you know, it's only for you. And I don't agree, because I think soon as we enter that space from creating art that's just, it's just as a form of expression for ourselves, and we're and we're not like trying to sell it. We're not trying to it's not our livelihood. That's one thing, but when we step into that professional arena, it's relational and and I think we're trying to connect with people and, like, get them. We're trying to elicit an experience for somebody. And so I think we actually it has to be collaborative. And so I think that was really helpful, kind of entering into the arena of thinking about, like, this is relationship building. And then that dovetails into like, you know, how we market, how we talk about our work and and, you know, which is also, you know, playing into that idea of, like, the starving artist archetype thing, which I think is a bunch of BS, I, you know, I It's like the starving artist. What that? That's not all artists for one, and I'm like, on a mission to kind of change that, that perspective, as much as I can. But I think the start so the starving artist is simply the person that wants to be an artist, but doesn't want to become a business person, and that you cannot not do that. It's like, I want to be an entrepreneur, but not have any business acumen, like you're not going to ever succeed and and so I think it was helpful for me, having come from an industry where I ran my own business, and I kind of understood that, that I was like, oh yes, like, I'm creating art, and I also have a product, and I have to sell that. I have inventory, I have to learn how to like, get this in front of an audience and the right audience. And there's that whole thing that, you know, in part, I think was really helpful, kind of going all in with that pressure, is that I realized I was like, I have to sell paintings. I have to like, think about what are the best ways to do this. And so I went and got mentorship, and I, like, you know, did as much as I could to learn that side of it. And, you know, so it was, it was a combination of all those of like, being serious about the craft and understanding, having clarity on what I was trying to contribute and how to run business, and what are all the things I need to focus on, and how do I get my message and my work in front of as many people, in front of the right people? Yeah, those three things I think are really critical,

Laura Arango Baier: 53:14

totally, totally. And I really love what you said about the starving artists. That is so true. And I think we've all come across that the artist is like, Oh, no one sees my work. No one cares about my work. But it's like, do you leave your studio? Do you go out there? Do you meet other people? Do you even post your work? And oftentimes they don't, and they're just waiting for, I guess, the opportunity fall in their lap, which things don't happen like that. And I love that you keep emphasizing the relational aspect of being an artist, because it is, of course, any business is, but I think a lot of people misinterpret being an artist as like the crazy person who hides like a hermit in their studio and doesn't know how to talk to other people, but then somehow they're still selling their work and they're crazy wealthy. I think movies have really done a number on that idea. Oh, exactly, yeah, yeah. But it's not like that. I mean, if you really want that success, like you said, you really have to put yourself out there, find a mentor like you suggested. I think that's one of the most underrated things that anyone can do. I think a lot of people myself included, might be like, I could, I could do it. It's fine. But then, you know, you would be saving so much time exactly.

Christopher Remmers: 54:28

That's the thing, right? Like, you are investing in yourself, and you are, you are paying to give yourself time. I mean, that's the end of the day. That's, that's what it's all about. Is like, Okay, do I want to spend months trying to reinvent and figure this out for myself, or pay some money and then figure this out in a couple weeks? You know? It so it's, yeah, I think, I think that's a good way for people to kind of reframe that orientation for themselves,

Laura Arango Baier: 54:56

totally, totally like your long term. It is like. Know, business wise and investment, and it truly does pay off, because you don't. I mean, you don't have to keep that mentorship forever either. I mean, you get what you need for as long as you can a little bit, like Nanny McPhee or like Mary Poppins, right where, like, you can keep it for as long as you feel like, okay, I think they're, you know, the law of diminishing returns at this point where I'm not getting as much from the mentorship, or you can keep the mentorship forever, but you're still benefiting from it long, long term. Yeah. And the only currency we have, just to say, what I said earlier is time. That's the real currency. Yeah, totally.

Christopher Remmers: 55:35

I wanted to say one last I mentioned it, and then kind of expound on it, which is being bold, you know, like, there's like, there's kind of the standard of, like, what every artist should be doing in terms of marketing and emails and and like, getting out there and and, you know, exposing yourself to the public and all those things. Those are all, you know, and so much more. But then there's also, like, being bold towards things that can end up becoming big, like windfall opportunities that like, I think it's always good to have be on the lookout for in terms of like, you can tip the scales dramatically if you were able to make a connection with the right person and the right relationship and the right contacts and like, I've always, I think that's something that's always, I've always pushed in myself, of, like, looking for those and be like, okay, like, what do I have to lose? Like, maybe I get embarrassed, I embarrass myself, or whatever. Or they say, no, like, that's generally going to be the worst, you know. And so I've gone after a lot of opportunities, most didn't pan out, but like the select few that did, were game changers, and you know, in terms of building relationships and getting, like, a new client, you know that I would have never dreamed that I would have gotten, you know, and so it's like, put yourself out there a little Bit. Be bold and like and don't be afraid of people's judgment of your idea, right? Like, I think that's the thing is, like we as artists are visionaries. Like we have ideas, and we need to, like, feed those ideas, and we need to express those and we need to share those ideas and get people to kind of rally behind them, and so we can get support. And so whether it's, you know, going after, you know, writing a grant or a proposal and pitching a big idea to somebody, and it's like, you know, what's the big adventure that you can imagine that you're the most excited about? Like, that's what you should be getting after as an artist. And so, so, yeah, that's what I would say, is just like, look for the opportunities and just put yourself out there.

Laura Arango Baier: 57:42

Totally, totally. I love a couple things that you mentioned there, because there's something that I think a lot of people, especially maybe younger artists, are afraid of, like you said, you know, oh, what if I make a fool of myself or embarrass myself? What if someone says something mean to me? And oftentimes I find that the people who are the most judgy or the people who are the most hyper critical are the ones who maybe like there's this quote that I like, which is, you will never be judged by someone doing more than you, because if anything, those people doing More will probably be the ones who will be encouraging you to continue, because they know, right? It's usually the detractors. Are usually people who have some self work to do, and it's better to just ignore them, because, like you said, you can't sell art to everybody. You can't convince everybody, and that's okay. You can at least try and and just put yourself out there, like you said, and you'll find your people like as long as your call is authentic and you're putting in the those hours into this vision that you might have. I mean, it sounds very fantasy like to say it like this, and very woo, woo. But I mean, if you really want those magical experiences, like you're saying, or if you really want to live a life where you're excited to wake up in the morning every day, you have to pursue that thing you're afraid of, pursuing that vision, that image. It's there, right? Yeah? Again, it sounds so Woo.

Christopher Remmers: 59:15

But I think it's weird. I mean, yes and no, you know, it's like, yeah, you know, I have always seen myself as a very kind of pragmatic person and skeptic at a lot of the times within you know, I also like guide people into the woods to, like, go do these wander practices that seem very woo, woo. And then I see people like having their whole lives transformed by just like getting off the trail and like asking themselves questions or going and talking to a tree. It's like, you know, to me, it's like that idea, like I talked about earlier, about myth, is that, like, you know, like store, like fantasy and story and myth has a place in the sense that it gets us to. To think outside the box in a creative way, and that we can make a metaphorical connection by in living in a world of imagination. You know, it's not that, it's just, it's not like, separate from, like, our place of reason in the world. It actually helps us think from a deeper place within reason is like, oh, like, I can think of this sort of, this fantasy world, and then it creates this metaphorical representation of this thing that I've, like, been struggling with, and suddenly I just solved the problem through imagination, right? Like, because it gave me context to think of it in this new way. And I think that's what art is really good at doing is, it's like, symbolically, kind of weaving something in a way that we didn't expect. And so to think of our lives in that way is, you know, to ask that question of, like, what's the myth that you're living into? Who's the version of yourself that you're trying to become? You know, and like, I love those kinds of inquiries, because it gets us to think like, outside of this, like, kind of patterned, automatic, like, I'm just kind of don't, don't, don't, I'm doing what everyone tells me to do and what I should do and what every person has done before me. And like, yeah, there's this, I've referenced this and a lot of interviews, but it's, it's just because it had such it was, it was one of the things that kind of catalyzed me, like taking the shift into being an artist. And I listened to this talk by Alan Watts, of like, what if money was wasn't an object? And he talks about this process of like, you know, go discover the adventure that you want to play out in your life and then figure out how to make a living doing it, rather than the other way around. Is like, go figure out what is going to provide the most financial resource, and then spend the rest of your life trying to negotiate to get time back to actually do the things that you want. And then we're just kind of on this perpetual cycle that he described as, like, all wretch and no vomit. You know, then you're just like, doing that, and then you're teaching your teaching your kids to do that, and then it's just like, over and over, and everyone's complaining about how they don't have time to do the thing that makes them feel alive and feel human. And is like, either way, you're gonna be struggling to like, to like, live in the world, struggle to do something that feels really meaningful to you, rather than you know the thing that's taking you away from that. That's what I say, you know,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:26

yes, and it is very well said, because it's so true. I mean, it's a little bit like, no matter what path you pick, you're probably going to suffer, because that's a human truth, as we all suffer, and we will end up suffering anyway, but then you got to pick the way that you will suffer productively, so to speak, which is, I love Alan Watts. He's one of my absolute favorite people to listen to, because he's so inspiring. And he also very much touches on those concepts of like the myth and like finding yourself. And actually, in a recent pot episode, I did mention one of my favorite quotes by him, which is also, you know, in order to know the self, it must be known through the other. And he uses a metaphor of, like, you can't touch the tip of your finger with your own finger. You need to touch it with something else. And I also find that to be a very good representation, also of the self knowledge that also is a huge component of being an artist. So much of it is getting to know yourself, because you and your art are almost like one organism. In a way, your art is representing representation of your experiences and who you are. And I think also that really ties into what you mentioned about making work that is good for incredible, highest quality, that involves a lot of facing your own demons and getting to know

Christopher Remmers: 1:03:52

yourself. Yeah, you gotta have skin in the game, exactly. Yeah. And then

Laura Arango Baier: 1:03:57

also, you mentioned something a little bit before about, you know, right place, right time, like meeting person like that somehow ends up, you know, turning you into, maybe, like, turning you towards an opportunity that you didn't expect. I think also that really ties into that, like, I find that serendipity is really just right preparation, basically all the time, and just having that boldness that you mentioned, to just put yourself at that moment. Just talk to that one person. If someone says, Hey, that guy over there is, he says he's looking for artists for this one show. And you say, really? And you walk over there, because, why not? Yeah, so it's that's part of that, that cycle of, you know, being an artist. I mean, it's so many components that build into making a successful career, and I think it's so important to holistically approach all of it, like, like we're mentioning right here,

Christopher Remmers: 1:04:49

yeah, and there's this connection too, right? I always say like, clarity is key. Is like, you know, it all dovetails into one another. Is like, take the time. Like. Really take the time to get super clear on what it is that you're trying to communicate as an artist, on and on at every level possible, right? Because that's going to give you the creative power to understand how to tell that story visually in all the different ways. It's also going to give you the confidence to speak about it, right? Like, if you just have some kind of generic like, stamp on top of what you do, because you didn't want to take the time to thoroughly investigate and think about it. Then, of course, you're going to feel uncomfortable talking to people about it, because you don't know what the heck it is. So it's like, Get clear, so that you have more creative power, and then also so that you can communicate. And then you know, and then, like, work on your elevator pitch, like, what's your like, one minute spiel that like is so dialed and succinct about capturing your sort of purpose and mission as an artist that you can like, when you're in the when you suddenly have the opportunity to talk to the right person, you're like, This is what I'm about. And like, you can get them excited about it, and then, like, if you get them excited about it, then it's game on, you know. And like, you know, we're trying to get people to buy into, like, the idea that we spend our whole world, like, playing within our mind. And so it's so like, that stuff is, it's, you have your tribe, you know, and you build and you grow. And that's beautiful thing,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:06:18

yeah, yeah. And, and to add to that as well. Like your tribe appears, as you know, you put yourself out there as well. Um, suddenly, like, I definitely see that on Instagram where, uh, I'll post something, and then suddenly the algorithm thinks, oh, you might like this person. And then turns out I love their work. And then turns out they love my work too. And suddenly, you know, you have that online friend that eventually maybe you meet in person. And then suddenly that opens up your world into something else. And I think that's it's that a little bit of that hybrid networking, hybrid that we can very much tap into as artists, internet slash in person. Of course, in person is always much, much more fun. But it's still important to be networking in all the ways that you can as well.

Christopher Remmers: 1:07:04

Yeah, exactly, exactly,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:08

but yeah, and then, actually, I also wanted to know if someone wanted to be a full time artist. Do you have any final advice, like one final piece of advice that you think someone should know.

Christopher Remmers: 1:07:26

I think a lot of it's just kind of reiterating what we've spoken about, you know, I think in recent times, the thing that like that, I think, is really important, you know, that we spoke about, which is, like, that question of like, why is it that you want to be an artist, and what is it that you want to contribute? I think that's a really important thing, because I think it kind of elevates this place of, you're entering into an arena and you want to be additive to that right, like you want to. And I think that if you, if you're coming from that place of wanting to contribute, then invariably, like, eventually, you become sort of a leader in a voice in that space. And that is, like, helps in so many ways, and how, how you can succeed in the world. And then, like I said before, is like, lead with the thing that you're creating as being excellent, extraordinary, like, high quality, like, be So Good They Can't Ignore You. You know, I just think that those things. And then there's one other one that I'll mention on top of that, which is, which is the like adaptability to, if you're gonna do this, then you're all in. You're thinking like, you need to think of it in the long game, right? Like you're This isn't like, I'm gonna try something that doesn't work and then I'm gonna throw in the towel. It's like, you have to be adaptable to the changing of tides, into the market, into all these things, into like, be relentless at like that didn't work. Try this. That didn't work. Try this. And to keep on figuring out like, the goal here is like, is like, you have this idea, you have this vision, you have this thing you want to bring in into world, and that you will stop at nothing to make it happen. And you will figure it out, as long as you kind of keep that long game persistent mindset and going for it. And the rest is, like, whatever the technique of getting better, the like, the details of how to run an email campaign and business like that stuff will all that's all easy, as long as you have that, like, big picture framework of knowing what you want to communicate, how you're going to communicate it and and the the mindset of deep inner belief to like, keep you staying The course, you know, and the rest is all just whatever you figure it out as you go, you know, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:09:47

yes, yeah. And I think one of the key things that I think really ties into what you mentioned, is having that openness, right? I think it's very. I it's very important. And this is one of the hardest things as an artist, especially at the beginning, when you're just learning and you're figuring stuff out. It's really hard to admit when you think your work isn't good enough, because it hurts, obviously it hurts your ego. It's normal, especially at the beginning when you're learning. But it's really important to know that it, you know, and this is one of the things that I believe, which is, I don't, I don't really believe in talent very much. I think, yeah, there are people who are naturally talented. Maybe they have more of a really good base to start from compared to other people. But in the end, what wins out is discipline and remaining open to learning, because it's so easy to try once and give up because you think, Oh, I'm not good enough. This isn't instantly gratifying me, therefore I give up. So having that, I guess, not being afraid to admit this could be better. Let's make it better. That, I think is also very important components that you're I feel like it's underlying everything that you just

Christopher Remmers: 1:11:07

said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, said, You know, I think it's the site, yeah. I call it like minding the gap, the gap of where you are and where you want to be. And, you know, of like, being careful, that culture of like, oh, you're, you're good enough the way you are. And, you know, yeah, maybe, like, on a spiritual heart level, Sure, absolutely. But like, I think people need to, you know, be humbled a little bit in the sense of, like, taking a real honest, hard look at themselves, being like, Yeah, I'm actually, like, I'm terrible. Or like, I have a lot of growth, and I just need to put my head down and get to work. You know, I don't think maybe we don't have time for this, but this is a bit of a kind of a controversial thing, and I think about this a lot in terms of the title of artist, which I have, like, mixed feelings about. I mean, I think, you know, calling myself or calling someone an artist seems like, feel like we're we're like, attempting, we're always attempting to create works of art. And sometimes we're successful, sometimes we're not. But like, it's always bothered me that outside of any other industry, and maybe we just need to have a new definition, is that, like, at any point someone can just be like, I'm an artist with like, zero qualification, and I'm like, I think that kind of hurts, like, the way that culture and the public view artists, right? Because I think there's so many people that are just like, throwing noise into the fire and be like, I'm an artist, and you're like, you know, and I get it like, I like, I'll have conversations with people, you know, out in the world, and they're like, What do you do? I'm like, I'm an artist. And you can tell they like, don't take it seriously. And then they come to my gallery, they see my work, and they're like, oh, oh yeah, okay, you actually like, take this seriously. And it's like, and so I that's just something that's always it's like, as, like, kind of a final note is just, like, take it seriously if you want to be an artist, like, take it seriously. Like, really give yourself to all of these things that we've talked about today, of like, the craft and the and the story, and like, capturing that quality of essence in the work that you're doing, and to be contributing to what what art is in the world, right? Like, it's just so important

Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:30

Absolutely, and I it's so funny that you mentioned artist as, like, a title that you struggle with, because I literally wrote in my notes here, what is an artist and something that I thought about asking you, because it's, I agree, you know, I It's happened to me as well. You know, someone asked, What do you do? I'm an artist. And they think, you know, oh, you just sit in your mom's room and doodle like little thingies and com art. It's like, no, it's artists with a capital A, you know, like, it's, it's a craft. It's something that is studied. It's something like, it's really funny, because people don't think the same thing about music, right? Like, you won't call yourself a violinist if you can't play the violin, right? There's a classical like, technique component that is the foundation of playing music. And then, of course, it's one thing to be a really good violinist versus being someone who's a very good violinist who also composes right, which I think that falls more into the category of artist, because we're not just creating reproductions of paintings. Some people can make a living doing that, but we're composing right the way Lucia would compose a beautiful piece, which I think I agree, it's something that really needs to be fixed a little bit more. And I actually have asked myself before the and this is also a little bit controversial, the idea of gatekeeping, and I think there's this. And actually this adds into the AI issue a little. It too, because there's just to touch on this topic a little bit, so I don't take too much of your time, but the idea of how things have almost fallen into this, like I said earlier, hyper productivity, that is cutting corners using AI or, like, whether it's with writing, with paintings, with a bunch of things that is really it has been so detrimental to the titles of writer, artist, musician, etc, that I think would benefit from a little bit more gatekeeping in terms of quality control, which I think we've really opened those gates for everybody, which is really Great. I think everyone should be encouraged to create, but at the same time, there should be a little bit more of a standard of, you know, a maintaining of standards help inspire more people. I mean, you don't just read Lord of the Rings and, you know, compare that to something that's written today that maybe was half written by AI, and think, oh, yeah, this is great, and Lord of the Rings sucks. No, you can't say that, because it's a masterpiece. Versus, you know, it's just something that someone put out there for a quick book, which I think it's a little bit interesting.

Christopher Remmers: 1:16:16

Yeah, yeah. There's a couple things I think about that, like, yes, gatekeepers. But, you know, like gatekeepers in a healthy culture, you know, is what I think about. Because I think in the art world in particular, those gatekeepers have then been bought out by shareholders. And, you know, there's, like, there's agendas to things, right? And like how we've seen in a lot of industries and today, and so it's like, how can we do that, that it's not bias. So, yeah, I agree. You know, the other thing that I think about is this book. It's just called Creativity, is written by the same author that wrote the book on flow, checks, Mahali. I totally probably butchering his name, but he talks about creativity as like a collaborative experience that, like, like, individually, we can be like, Oh, I did something creative, right? Which essentially is to is like something that is both novel and useful, right? And so, you know, makes me think of a banana on a wall, but, but like this idea that, like, in a healthy culture, healthy gatekeepers are responsible as that collaboration is, like, I do something that I think is creative, like I'm contributing both through, like, story and narrative and vision and craft that I want to present something to the culture in hopes that it'll have an impact, right? And then those gatekeepers are, then, kind of, they help, kind of bring that and usher that into the world, to see, like, is this actually something that is, that is like, valuable, right? And and then then that's the collaboration. Is that, like, there's an agreement collectively that, yes, this is creative, this is novel and useful to the evolution of how we are as humans in the world, and how we think, and how, you know, all the nuance of that. And I think that's a really interesting way to think about it, right, especially for me, as I've been entering more of this arena of collaboration in my work and working with, like, filmmakers and storytellers and like, like, you know, inviting people into my process of how to tell the story. And like, you know, I actually really love that. So anyway, just I haven't come to any, like, hard conclusions, but I think I tend towards an agreement that, like, I think that's a nice way to think about it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:18:46

Yeah, totally, totally. And as always, you know, work like yours, work that's been really obsessed over and loved and, you know, pushed forth into a new boundary, right? It elevates other people's work, which is why, like you said, it's so important to create something that is beautiful, inspiring and incredible as much as you can. I mean not pressuring yourself, but just letting those things flow through you is going to elevate everyone else's view, in some sense, because they're going to see your work and think, oh my gosh, I never knew that that was possible. And now it like blows your mind, expands your world, and then you start thinking of something much greater than just a more insulated idea of what greatness could be. And I think that's one of the good things about, you know, surrounding yourself with a network of really great artists and looking at really great work as it should be inspiring and elevating.

Christopher Remmers: 1:19:49

Yeah, 100% 100% awesome.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:19:52

Yeah. And then I also wanted to ask you if you have any upcoming workshops, classes or shows that you'd like to promote. I.

Christopher Remmers: 1:20:00

Yeah, no, no shows. I mean, I've got, you know, I'm going to start publicly talking about this more and more, and I, as of Sunday, I can now do this. So I've been working with a documentary filmmaker and this whole team in a project called water wars, how to avoid, which is like a local thing happening here in Bellingham around water rights to the Nooksack River, and involving indigenous people and farmers and politicians and the whole like. And I'm working with them to be painting portraits and depictions of people's relationship to the river. And so I'm going to be, yeah, I'll be broadcasting, advertising that on my social media, on my website, within the next week, but I just released a couple of the paintings that I've done for that project on Sunday. So that's something that's really exciting. And then, you know, as always, I, you know, I have an academy, the conscious creativity Academy, which is an ongoing mentorship program that's lifetime access. And so if you kind of, if you resonate with some of the things that we've been talking about here, you know, go check it out. And let's get on a call and talk about how I can help. And then, yeah, yeah, I've been, you know, I've the last, like, year and a half, I've been kind of out of the exhibition show world, because, like I said in the beginning, I've been incubating on on projects and doing a lot of commission work. So that's going to be changing here fairly soon. But there is some, one other thing, which is I recently got involved with the conru Art Foundation in Seattle, where I'm kind of one of six artists that are being commissioned to do kind of a public commission portrait. And so I highly recommend, you know, artists to check out that foundation through Seattle and look at what he's doing. There's like a salon and a fellowship and all this other stuff that's happening. But you know, if you're, especially if you're kind of local to the area, that's worth checking out,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:22:11

awesome, yes. And I will include all of those links in the show notes as well. And do you mind telling us what your website is? Yeah.

Christopher Remmers: 1:22:18

So the website is just Christopher remmers.com and on there, you can find all the stuff that we we talked about, and then it's just Instagram. Is just Christopher Remmers, all one word awesome.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:22:31

Well, thank you so much, Christopher for the extremely engaging and inspiring conversation. I hope our listeners really take your words to heart and pursue that incredible greatness that is within them. So thank

Christopher Remmers: 1:22:45

you. Yeah, thank you. Thanks for the good questions. It was awesome talking with you. Yeah, it was awesome. Thank you. All right, see you folks later. Thank you

Laura Arango Baier: 1:22:54

to everyone out there for listening to the podcast. Your continued support means a lot to us. If you've enjoyed the episode, please leave a review for the podcast on Apple podcast Spotify, or leave us a comment on YouTube. This helps us reach others who might also benefit from the excellent advice that our guests provide. Thank you.