Todd Casey: 0:00

Yeah, for me, I'm always, I'm just curious, always curious, and I'm, I have no problem with failing, like, if it, if it sucks, you will forget, and another day will go by. And I think it started with sketch sketching and sketch books and grabbing a pen and just acknowledging that that is you and where you are, and you can't hide it. That's the pen mark you just made. You could make a choice to make it better, and it's going to come with a lot of time and energy, but flip the page that happened, you cannot change it, and just accepting it one step at a time, and then if you look back at that sketchbook at the end, there was tremendous growth.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:42

Welcome to the bold brush show where we believe that fortune favors a bold brush. My name is Laura ankle Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips, specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who are in careers tied to the art world. In order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Todd Casey, a fine artist, author and teacher who embraces a way of living that values creativity, personal expression and continuous self improvement. Todd shares his artistic journey from graphic design to Atelier training, emphasizing the importance of curiosity as an excellent catalyst for personal growth. He discusses the value of developing both fast and slow painting techniques and the benefits of exploring different mediums and approaches without being constrained by rigid artistic rules. Throughout the conversation, Todd stresses the significance of creating art for personal passion rather than external validation, highlighting that the joy of the creative process is more important than potential fame or financial success, he advises aspiring artists to remain open to opportunities, take risks and focus on their own growth and introspection. Finally, Todd tells us about his upcoming live demo at the guild of Boston artists on May 17, as well as his Patreon, and reminds us to keep up to date by checking out his website and social media. Welcome Todd, to the BoldBrush show. How are you today? Good. How are you I'm doing great. I'm excited to have you because your work is gorgeous. You're an amazing instructor. Your books are awesome. And I mean, if anyone wants to learn how to paint better, I feel like I would 100% recommend your books first, because they are so thorough, so delicious in terms of information and and, yeah, so I'm excited to have you, and also because you and I basically studied in one of the, you know, the same academy actually, technically, just different times. So it's really awesome to speak to a fellow alumni of the same school. Awesome. Yeah, yeah, yeah, so, but before we, you know, talk more about all of that history side of like, you know, the school and your work and everything. Do you mind telling us about a bit about who you are and what you do?

Todd Casey: 3:03

Sure my name is Todd Casey or Todd M Casey, I added the M in because one time I got Todd Casey's financial aid in undergrad, yeah, which was cool that he was getting a lot of money, but then they self corrected it, and then I didn't get that money. So, so I don't, so I didn't get into that anymore. I am now taught M Casey, which is also what my mom yells at me. The M is for Michael, so nobody ever yells at me as Todd Michael Casey anymore, except for her. I'm a painter, an artist, an author and a teacher. And yeah, I live in Connecticut with my wife and daughter, and I teach throughout the country, buying the workshops. I teach at Lyme Academy, in the core program, and also in the continuing ed. Do a lot of online teaching as well, in the process of writing two more books and trying to think there's anything else I like basketball,

Laura Arango Baier: 4:11

yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's important to have, you know, stuff outside of art that we enjoy, because it feeds into it somehow. And you know, it's good to be well rounded like a basketball haha. But, yeah, awesome. But, and of course, now you know you've had quite a long time. You know that you've been painting and working and doing all these awesome things. When did your path of the artist initially began,

Todd Casey: 4:43

yeah, that's a tough one, and it's always fascinating to kind of hear people answer that, but I'll do my best. I think it started when I was a kid my brother, I shared a bedroom with my brother, Chris, and he's three and a half years older. There. And I think he got a little art recognition from my aunt, and I wanted some of that love as well. And I think the two of us just begin to do art together. And then from there, I did it well throughout, you know, my whole life, but didn't really take it seriously until I went to college. I went to Mass art in Boston, and the first one in my in my family to go to college, and yeah, followed the the path of art. Chris actually came with me. I convinced him to go to Mass art with me. And we started as freshman, 1997 and we've kind of been in it together. We worked at Ralph Lauren together as graphic designers. We live together. We still keep in touch. He's here in Connecticut as well. Sometimes he'll come by. He didn't have the training at Telia training that you and I both have, but he's fascinated. He's more trained as a graphic designer. And yeah, sometimes they'll come over and he's just like, let's paint. And I'm like, Alright, I love it, and we paint, and he's good, he's really good at it.

Laura Arango Baier: 6:06

That's awesome. Yeah, I was actually going to ask if he continued with the arts. So it's really cool that he did because and also that he went in a different direction from you, because, you know, everyone has their own little flavor that they want to pursue. And I know you actually also studied illustration, right?

Todd Casey: 6:23

Yeah, what's what's interesting is that I didn't I grew up loving Norman Rockwell, and that's kind of what I wanted to do. But when you get to undergrad, there's the practical side of you know, what are you going to do with the thing that you get when you're done? And I actually was going to double major as a graphic designer and illustrator, but was talked out of it, and Chris went into graphic design. I figured I could just pick his brain and learn from him. But ironically, we both worked as graphic designers together at Ralph Lauren so but with what's fascinating is that they brought me in because I almost was more, I was more heavy on being able to paint, and he was more of a true, trained graphic designer. And we brought two different skill sets to the to the, you know, the job, which, again, it was fun job to to do. But, yeah, he's kind of been in and out of my life. He still is all the time. Oh,

Laura Arango Baier: 7:21

that's really cute. It's like a dynamic duo just working together in the same company. That's really fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, actually, I'm curious then, because, since you did study illustration, when did you decide, like, oh, there's this Atelier over here. When did you find out about, like, the Atelier system, and then decide to go, Yeah,

Todd Casey: 7:41

I don't. I don't want to tell too long of a story, but I'll tell a little bit of a story. I got trained as an illustrator, and I was, like the world's worst illustrator, but I moved home with my parents, and I did all these odd jobs. I was a mailman for a year of my life. I did construction. I was a waiter, 10 other things, and then I I moved back to Boston, and then I moved to New York City. I worked as a waiter at the Plaza, and then I got a job at Ralph Lauren the art department. I was there for about a year, and realized I hate the corporate world. It wasn't for me. I don't hate the corporate world. It just wasn't for what I was looking for, because I was looking to express myself in the medium of art, and that didn't feel like it was allowing me to was it was doing tasks for other people. So I ended up moving to grad school, to the Academy of Art University in San Francisco, to get a master's in 3d animation. And I got in, I moved out there. I just got, like, it back when Craigslist was cool. I don't even know if people still use Craigslist. It's still around. Yeah, it's still around. Oh, I got like, an apartment on Craigslist, I think it was like$600 right in the middle of San Francisco, and I just knew it was right next to the animation building that I was going to be in. So I moved there to get a masters in animation. Opened up, open up Maya the program. It was like, I don't want to be a 3d animator. And then I moved to 2d and animation. So anyway, I was going for Masters in animation, and then realized you had to take all these heads in hands, kind of like Andrew Loomis classes. And in there is when I met Warren Chang, who was a painter. And he said, You, you sound like you want to be a painter. He was like, we both love nor Morocco. We talked about him all the time. He said, You should, you should go back to New York City and study with like Max Ginsburg and Burt Silverman and Jacob Collins. And I wrote all the names down. I was like, I don't know who any of these people are. And that summer, I went to the illustration Academy in Florida. And then I moved back in with my parents. I was back in with my parents in Lowell, Massachusetts for. Like two weeks, and was bored to tears. I went back to New York City and got a job back at polo, freelancing, and then started to look into all those names that he had said. And then I had emailed Jacob, and he said, come in for an interview. And that's where it kind of began. And I remember just walking in the Atelier that day, because, you know, it's almost like a speakeasy, like these things are existing, and you're just like, where do you get a beer around here? And nobody's going to tell you, unless you go into the random wrong door. I just remember walking in there that one time and and like there were 14 people or 12 in front of the model, and they were all freaking fantastic. And I was like, why am I so late to the party? And if I could be the worst one in here, I'd be I'd be happy. He told me to go do a cast drawing at GCA at the time, and I did it. And three months later, I came back, and I thought I was going to get rejected. Made me feel like crap. You told me I was old. Oh no, yeah. And and then Nick hiltner, at the time, had just left. There are two spots that had opened up and and I got in. So that's how it it kind of serendipitously, was just following, following a blissful road of not sure where to go with all this, and then trying them all out, and then, you know,

Laura Arango Baier: 11:25

finding it, yeah, yeah. And of course, I mean, now you have your books and you have your beautiful work, so it's, it's really cool to see, like, those turning points in hindsight, because it's like, wow, that was actually a key moment in my life, where it led me down the path that led me to who and where I am today, right? Like, there's, it's really interesting to hear, you know, artists like you talk about their past in that way, because for us, it's like, oh yeah, inevitably, this was going to happen. You were this. This was totally going to end up the way that it is now, but in that moment in the past, you had absolutely no idea. And I think that's such an interesting perspective.

Todd Casey: 12:02

Yeah, it sounds linear, but I think it was Schopenhauer that said it's not until later on in your life that you can look back at the moments that seemed random, that were really the structuring of everything in your life. And Aristotle has a quote that's similar to it, too. Life makes sense backwards, not forward. Yep,

Laura Arango Baier: 12:20

exactly, yeah. Hindsight is 2020, as they say, which is really cool. And I love that you it was Warren Chang who told you about it, because I've had him on the show, and he's such a blast, and his paintings are also absolutely amazing. Yeah, wonderful person, yeah, yeah. Become

Todd Casey: 12:35

a friend now. And you know, he was a student of Max Ginsburg. So he was like, Oh, you gotta look up max. And you gotta look up Jacob. And I think he had painted with Jacob a couple of times in Brooklyn when Water Street was actually on Water Street in Brooklyn. And yeah, he was kind of like he was the turning point of, like, you should go over here and check this out. And yeah, and here I am, and he's in all my books as a, not, not only do I love his work, he's also like a mentor to me, but yeah, as a look everybody. His work is beautiful, and we've stayed in touch. I, I designed his book for him. So one of the other things I did, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 13:15

oh, that's so sweet. And yeah, his book is, well, his work, and his book and everything is wonderful. So great job on that. And also, you know, it's, it's awesome that you guys keep in touch. Because, again, he's, yeah, his work is, but, uh, but, yeah, that's so fascinating. And actually, that brings me to another question, because this is something else that you know, especially with people like you who have studied illustration and then gone through, like, the Atlas system. And then, you know, there's that period of time after that where it's like, okay, what do I keep and what do I take out of my process? How has your process developed and changed over time after, you know, having studied all of these different ways of pursuing the arts?

Todd Casey: 13:55

Yeah, I think every place I've gone to has a strength and a weakness to it. And, you know, my purpose in doing all of these things is to find the strength from them all and pull I don't think any one school is going to give you everything. So illustration allowed me to delve into kind of the idea of telling stories and being narrative with the work, but also working on the process of it, you know, so animation also did that as well. The the idea of, like sketching all the time, you know, if you were to put yourself up against, not you, but if artists were to put themselves up against, like a Disney animator, they can sketch amazing, like, so fast. So one of my teachers at the Academy of Art University was Sherry Sinclair, and she had worked at, I think, as a cleanup artist on Mulan, and I was just fascinated at, like, how, how she did this one task, I think, of cleanup of for line, and just making it beautiful and calligraphic, but the ability to just. Sketch on demand in quickly. So my whole thing with all of this is just been able to to extract all the good from everywhere that I go, and put them together, and then have a lot of time to reflect and make sure that, you know, I'm on the path that I want to be on, and not that somebody else is kind of, you know, somebody's esthetic taste has been kind of thrown on me to head towards it. It's tough because there's no path for that. That's really a lot of downtime and thinking. But yeah, so I think a lot of a lot of each aspect. There's also the illustration Academy, which I went to, and that's Mark English, Gary Kelly, Sterling, Hundley, Anita Kuntz, CF Payne. A lot of, I sorry to just throw names out, but a lot of illustrators that have a whole process before they get into making a painting. And I think ateliers are a little bit more backwards, where sometimes they're just mimetic. They're like, working from the model, and then they come up with an idea after and I'm always like, I'm always trying to figure out all the variables, of ways to kind of make pictures, and then you have a toolbox that you can kind of pull into. So,

Laura Arango Baier: 16:16

yeah, and it's really interesting, you know, especially what you mentioned about speed, also, because it is really awesome that, you know, especially, you know, in illustration, right, there's that speed one, because, you know, you're producing something for a client, and it's, it's more from like, a business standpoint, of like, okay, well, I have a deadline, but with, like, the athlete system, especially with my experience, it is such a slow process, at least. You know, in the Atelier that I've studied in, there is an emphasis on taking your time, which, when one of our instructors, with Michael, John Angel, mentioned it, he was like, these works are unsellable because it takes so so much time that if you had to account for, like, your rent, the cost of schooling, the cost of materials and the cost of labor for these paintings, it's unsellable. It's 1000s of dollars, unless you have, you know, a collector in the future who really, really wants your student work, which is, it's pretty rare that that happens, if at all it's, it's just going to sit there and it's a fun exercise. It's still, you know, useful. And I hear a lot of you know people who have gone to academies who later on say, Man, I wish I would have enjoyed you know my cast a little bit more, because it is actually fun to slow down. But of course, that doesn't it's, it's that balance of like, well, you can't really slow down that much if you're going to live as a painter, unless you have a day job, or unless you have another means of income, because that's that delicate balance that comes in, which is really interesting to me, because it's, you know, once you're out of the academy, it's like, Okay, I gotta, I gotta make money now or have some sort of job while I try to figure out the process that I want to have for my work, because, like you said, you know, there is a lot of like, just working from the model and then doing something with it after, if you're someone who wants more narrative stuff, or you want to do something a little bit more Fun, fantastical, or just totally different from the academies. That takes a lot of unlearning, or a lot of exploration, a lot of experimentation, which, unfortunately, those are some things that the academies don't necessarily promote in their students, is the experimentation side. So, you know, like, for example, like, if someone wanted to improve their technique, right, what would you suggest to them?

Todd Casey: 18:48

Yeah, I guess I would technique of what? Well, in, you know, just learning to paint better. Oh, paint better. Yeah, I would just say it's all over the place, because, you know, it depends on where they want to go with it. You know, if you want to, like, I could see like value or utility and doing like daily paintings, like, if you've if you've never, if you've never painted, why not jump right in, right? So my whole thing always was like, learn how to go really fast and then really slow, and find the two poles, and then figure out in the middle what overlaps with you, right? And that's where, like, Jacob was a slow painter, even though he can paint fast. And then Max was a very fast painter who could paint slow. And I was like, I'm going to paint with two of these. And I remember when I went to Jacob, and I said, I, you know? Maxinsberg said, Of course I do. And he said, I'm gonna, I'm gonna paint with Max. He said, You shouldn't, because you'll probably get confused. And he was completely right. However, I still did it. I just didn't tell Jacob. And Max was like, I would go to the Art Students League, and we would just do like, three hour portraits every Saturday. Okay? And then over at Water Street, we would do 70 hour cast drawing or whatever, three months that kind of stuff. But for me, I was like, I didn't bridge a gap between how to go really fast and really slow, yet it was like, also trying to master the materials and understand color and how to make tonal progressions. And there's just too many variables, you know, we're like we can totally overthink it at the beginning, but why not jump in and then assess and then figure out which way I want to go. But I was always, let's get these two skill sets so I can go really fast and really slow. It harks back into when I was an animator. So animation was all about fast, fast, fast. And we will go to Sketch nights. The Academy of Art. University provides free models you can do like three different workshops every night. Some of them were 22nd sketches. Some of them were anatomy workshops. Some of them were like 40 minute poses. 40 minute poses for them was super, super long, right? So, so I was, I just remember, I was in a class one day, and somebody was like, Are you going to sketch tonight? And I and I didn't know anything about these workshops yet, and I said, what do you what do you mean? And in our one of our goals was to fill a sketchbook in a semester. And I said, What do you mean? Where are you going to sketch? And I walked in the room with him that night because I was, like, interested, and realized I was late to that party because there was already like 50 people there sketching. And I was like, How do I not know about this? And then I just used that as fuel, and then went every single night to at least one of these, submerging myself and getting really fast at gesture and working with a pen so that I couldn't erase, like, to articulate it right? And it's the same way in which I do it with paint now, which is, like, you know, learn how to go really slow, learn how to go really fast, and then you can be economical when you need to. And then the other thing is, I get asked a lot like, how do you how do you loosen up? And it's like, well, there's the quote by, I think it's William Merritt Chase, and he says it takes two artists to paint, one to stand behind with an ax, to cut the arm off before the artist destroys it. And you would watch somebody like Max paint from an abstraction into naturalistic painting. But Jacobs was a little bit more linear, where you would actually see it progressing. And I thought, I want to have a whole toolbox to just pull from at all times. And if I can do that, then the world's just my oyster to play with.

Laura Arango Baier: 22:35

Wow, wow. I really, I love what you mentioned about that speed right? Allowing yourself to experience those two speeds, because there is used to it right. Like, I still, like, pull a little bit from that academic side where it's like, you slow down a bit and you like, try to rethink, oh, there's something wrong going on here. Maybe I should slow down. Because I don't. It's a little bit like learning a song right where, like when you're in a difficult part, you have to slow down to get that movement correct between those notes that you're trying to hit, and then you can speed through them. And then, in my opinion, that's where, like, that loosening up can happen, because you've become so proficient at something that you don't need to slow down as much to try to get that stroke in the correct angle, the correct direction, which that can only happen, you know, with the deliberate practice of slowing down a little bit, but then also the extreme practice of speed, right? Which is why I think a lot of people gravitate towards like plein air, because plein air forces you to be fast, and it forces you to to, you know, maybe slow down on some parts, but at the risk and at the consequence of maybe losing information, because the sun has just moved and your shadows have just changed. So yeah, I think it's really cool to have come from, like, those two directions, and to have experienced, you know, the, oh, that, that importance of slowing down, but then also speeding up, and then back and forth, back and forth, because so far, actually, on the podcast, I don't think anyone's ever really mentioned that, you know, having those two attempts at speed. So I think that's really useful information for technique. So that's, yeah, that's insane

Todd Casey: 24:16

painting out of your head too. I think, like, I keep, I keep digging into the French academic tradition to see how much not fact checking it, but to see how much we actually are following in it. So there are these beautiful sketches that the French academics used to do. It's really what impressionism came out of, which we call the poster study. But in the echo de beaux art for the pre to Rome, they would they would have the students come in, and the first day would be great, a composition out of your head. That's what you have to do today. And what you're going to do is you're going to lock into the composition, and then you're going to paint it. And they would do a tracing of the of the composition to make sure that they. And deviate from it, but they had a month after to explore it. Now, that's a different way of creating a painting than Atelier training, which is typically, here's a model they're sitting in front of you, and now what's the background that we're going to put in? Right? Or everything is in front of me. I just need to capture it so the animation illustration side was much more out of your head and then serve your idea than working from life and then coming with an idea after again. I'm not here to say which one is better or worse. It's just here's the toolbox of ideas, and play with them all when you're in your studio, just do either the two, and which one makes the Better Work, right?

Laura Arango Baier: 25:38

Yeah, yeah. And they actually just reminded me, too, of the thing with using pictures and not using pictures, right? Because that's another aspect that's, I think, really important that ateliers do have, is working from life. Having that practice is so important. Because if you you know, everything that we see comes from nature, right? We have to learn to observe things to be able to apply them properly in like, a realistic setting on a painting. If you want to create the illusion of reality, you have to understand reality. But then, of course, there are some schools of thought that don't like pictures, and I think pictures are evil. And it's like, yeah, but like, how else am I going to capture a horse and movement? Like, yeah, I could try to be like, Da Vinci and hope that I have eidetic memory. And I could just, like, observe a horse enough times that I can capture it. But there's also, why would I, you know, lose the opportunity of having an images reference for something that's a really challenging pose, like, I'm not going to torture my model either and have them hold some god forsaken difficult pose, because also, models are expensive, right? And not every artist can afford to pay a model for multiple hours of, you know, painting time, because it takes forever. So, of course, there's a benefit of pictures, and I feel like illustration with its, you know, its use of photography as well. They didn't poo poo photography. They said, well, photography is useful and and then we can use it as reference, which is the keyword there, reference, instead of perfect copying, which is totally fine, if people perfectly copy images, that's another thing that, you know, artists can do, and that's fun, too. But if you're trying to seek out a different type of work, where it's that beautiful marriage between like something imagined, but then also something realistic, then photography can be your friend, and that's okay, you know? Yeah.

Todd Casey: 27:21

I mean, it's funny, because I'm sure you've got the same conversations I started with my headphones on, because they don't always seem like they're open minded. They just seem like they're an esthetic, dogmatic thing that are put on to an atelier and you agree with us or you're against us, right? And it's like, Well, why don't? Yeah, just like I say, with everything, the purpose of knowledge is action. It's not just to get the knowledge. It's like, go, go paint from a photo so that you know exactly what they're talking about. And then do you want it to look like a photo? There's nothing work wrong working with photos. Then I don't want my work to look like photography. There are times in which I work from life and then I'm like, the flower moved. I'm either going to the painting is going to move with the flower, or I can go back to the photograph, but it gives me a piece of data. Now, these arguments have gone on forever, and there should not be a winner or a loser. There should be your opinion, in my opinion, and at the end of the day, the rest of it is, who cares? Paint in bliss, and then close the door and do the things you want. If you want to make it look like photography, go for it. I don't think either you or I do. And therefore, you know, we paint from life,

Laura Arango Baier: 28:40

yeah, yeah. Illustration, you

Todd Casey: 28:42

bring up a good point too, with the horse, which is fascinating, because you look at a lot of horse paintings prior to, oh man, the one who did the photographs was it, oh, I can't remember

Laura Arango Baier: 28:54

his name. I know. But the one who wanted to prove that all horses, all the four lands that get off the ground when they run,

Todd Casey: 29:00

yeah. Yeah. Anyway, the friend, the one that was friends with econ, you look at Horse paintings prior to that, and they were making stuff up, which is, now that we have the knowledge of it just looks kind of silly. So, but yeah, I mean, shit, I don't have a horse in my backyard. Where I don't have a horse in my backyard, so, like, I don't have access to a horse, and if I want to paint one, then I'm going to paint one from a photo. I actually just took a roll of photos from of horses, because I'm like, why don't I? Why don't I come up with my own conclusions, rather than, you know, beholden to anybody else's ideals. If you don't want to do it, don't do it.

Laura Arango Baier: 29:41

Yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, it's like, how some people like a little spice in their food, and some people might not tolerate it. And that's

Todd Casey: 29:48

it. Those are other those are other conversations that I'm like, you know, the purity of like, the best coffee or something like that. And I'm like, you bring your own value to the things. And if you want. To do it. You do it. And if somebody tells me that this Starbucks is better than Dunkin Donuts, just go to Boston and talk to a Bostonian. None of them would agree with you. You know, yeah, explaining arguments that I'm like, I'm gonna go paint. I don't want to.

Laura Arango Baier: 30:16

Yeah, exactly. Oh, totally. I mean, in the end, you know, the best painting, or the best, in the case of coffee, the best coffee is the one that you enjoy for you, you know, that's the best one for you, and that's what matters. And then, if you're like, all the coffee, that's awesome, you know? So I agree. I mean, there's, there are, and it's funny, because, you know, there are these funny ways that different schools, whether they're illustration, schools, academic schools, etc, like to box themselves in. And it's it can be a good thing in terms of maintaining maybe, quote, unquote, the purity of something which I think that's a whole conversation of like, well, what does that even really mean? But then also, there's a risk of it not adapting, or even, kind of being like an Ouroboros, right? Where it's like the snake devouring itself or just doesn't produce anything anymore. And this is actually something that you and I had been talking about before, where, like, there's the issue of, like, are the academic schools of today even truly as academic as the ones from the past, right? There are so many different things that have changed in these systems of how they teach, right? Like you have in newer academies, or like the Neo academic, as they like to call it, the 60 hour pose, whereas, you know, you mentioned again, well, theirs were 12 hours and was only maybe a week. And that's a huge difference and the way that they're applied, right? I feel like a lot of academic schools, they teach for the sake of teaching the academic rather than with the end goal of, this is something you use, and this is something you evolve with, instead of, well, this is point A to point B. Okay, guys, have fun. You know? It's very different. Whereas illustration does give you that expansiveness, so you can do anything with this. Maybe you're not as adept in terms of technique, but hey, you can learn on the go, and that's another way of approaching being an artist.

Todd Casey: 32:16

Yeah, it's, by the way, it's Muybridge was the one who had the photography who slowed it down? Yeah. Look, I'm all for listening to all aspects of things and then picking and choosing what it is that I like from it. But yeah, I mean, every school is correct and incorrect in everything that they teach. It's not dogmatic. There's a million different roads to Rome, right? So it's whatever one you should find out where it is you're trying to go with it and the things in which you're trying to do with it. And then continue to learn how to keep learning as well. So you can keep adding and shifting. So photography, to me is like, yeah, I've totally painted from photographs, and I painted only from photographs to see what it's like, just so I have my own opinion on it. I've made my own beer, you know, I've grown my own vegetables. I do not make good beer. I can grow vegetables, but it also makes me appreciate all of the things. So come up to your own conclusions. Everybody should and not just listen to Facebook and fights and stuff like that, like just fleeting just people trying to waste time. We all have different opinions, and they should be celebrated, not. We don't have to have the the same agreement on everything. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 33:39

definitely, definitely. And what matters in the end is, again, like, are you happy with whatever process it is that you're developing for yourself? You are cool. You're not okay. Experiment, find something new, and try something new and and reach, like you said, your own conclusions. You know,

Todd Casey: 33:55

well, the question is, is the the way that you're doing it holding you back, or is it allowing the art, the spirit to be free. And you know, if it's holding you back, then you should, you know, regroup and look at the methodology. Yeah, but look, there's plenty of shortcuts out there, and I think it's human nature to want to take them, rather than how to learn to draw from life. If you draw from life, you can work with photographs. If you can't work from life, it's easier to work from photographs, right and out of the time. Why? I think people do it. They start there. I think you and I both understand that art is it kind of goes right back to the first question you had, which is like, when did you become an artist? And I think that we grew. I think there's something that we're kind of born with a desire to make a this a passion. It's the way in which I do everything. It's not just the way in which I hold a paint brush or a pencil. It's the way in which I cook, the way in which I do. Do anything, and it's to stop and smell the roses and think it was Robert armory that said, I'm interested in art is a way of living, not as a way of making a living. Of course, if those two Venn diagrams can come together and I can make some income, income, fantastic. But at the same time, I, you know, it doesn't always overlap, and yeah. Sometimes I'll just go down a rabbit hole of painting things that I'm like, I don't care if they sell. It makes my heart happy and not just my head. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 35:29

exactly, exactly. And I think, you know, it's really funny how people think, oh, only artists are creative, or only, you know, people in the arts are creative. But creativity is a basic human act, right? It is one of the base ones. It is, it's, it's from the thoughts we have to the food we make, to the car we pick or the clothes we wear, that is all creativity based. It is fundamental. Exactly, yeah, it's problem solving. It's man, how do I feel today? Or what music do I want to listen to today? Or it's, you know, creativity just surrounds the human, even the people who think they're the least creative, you know, because it's a base act that we have. So that actually, kind of what you mentioned, reminded me of the the book the creative act by Rick Rubin, where he also, yeah,

Todd Casey: 36:22

I love all that. Those the ones that are just they're an artist or creative in a different field. You know, because you and I were chatting last time, it's like, what podcast you listen to? And I'm like, I want to listen to kind of fringe people that bring another flavor to a way of thinking, even something like Chef's Table on Netflix, where you see like, chefs that are putting stuff together and they're designing a plate. So when people are asking me how to compose, well, I'm like, do it tonight when you make dinner and present it to your loved one. I do that to my wife. When I cook, I'm always like, I work in fine dining. I know what, what it's like to like to play something in a beautiful way. It's like a Japanese tea ceremony. Like to do something mundane beautifully, to stop and smell the roses. So creative act is a fantastic book. I'm trying to think Gilbert Stewart, Elizabeth Stewart's Elizabeth Gilbert is that her name? Uh, Big Magic. That's a fantastic book too. Yeah, I'm writing it down. I love those kind of books. You know, the creator is fantastic because he gives you these small little it's almost like the art spirit for musicians, but like little nuggets that you can kind of read, and it doesn't take your whole time to read it as a book. Oh, yeah, fantastic. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 37:41

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Todd Casey: 42:01

Yeah, again, it's hard to say, because I think if we, if we just keep if we broaden out, I know I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you an answer here. But the thing is, if you just broaden out, and if you truly are just an artist, just quote, unquote artists, in all that you do, you don't stop doing it, right? You're doing it when you're planting your garden, you're doing it. When you put stuff on a shelf, you're you're presenting the food in a beautiful way. You're slowing it down. The things that you do, you do it all the time. You know, there's practical things in life that I was after, which was that my wife and I, when we got married, we wanted a house, and, you know, right out of Water Street, I was like, I need to show that I have an income, because I don't have I don't even think I had to claim, because I would, didn't make money at the time, or made not enough to even claim, which is like $15,000 but we wanted a house, and then I took a job back at polo again, Because Polo has interweaven in and out of my life, throughout my time at Water Street, and I was freelancing even when I was in grad school, which I'm blessed that I had that to be able to work from home for like 10 years, but then I went full time in office. And then again, if you're aware and you're looking around, there's inspiration everywhere. I worked at Ralph Lauren full time in 2011 they had offered me a job because I came in as a painter. My brother was there. My wife was there. My brother and my wife used to do lunch together at Ralph Lauren. She's a graphic designer, but I used to come in as a painter with no idea what to do. And the guy, Tim Holmes, my art director, was like, I love it. You don't have these things holding you back, you know what I mean, like this design sense that you had to abide by. And my brother would come around and be like, Yeah, you're not supposed to do that, but you did it, and it works, you know? And I was like, I guess I didn't get the memo on that one. So I worked at Ralph Lauren from 2011 2016 and Ralph worked in the building. I used to work with his brother, Jerry, and the way in which he puts together narratives was a thing to study. So I was around there all the time looking at the way in which he's putting collections together to tell almost like a sequential story with pictures. So there was the inspiration, the reference, the whole side, just like on animation that he was putting together collections based off of a concept, an idea. Go find vintage, go flesh out the idea. And then the team went off, and then we kind of pulled it together, which is beautiful, but part of me, you know, my heart still called for me to be a painter. So I would, I always try to be economical with my time. Gina and I used to take the train in from Westchester into New York City. And on the train, I was like. I can either sleep, which I did half the time, and when I wake up, I would read a book, but I got into these modes of like I can think about painting all day. So when I come home and I paint, I'm economical with my painting. And every day I just came home, and at nine o'clock, Gina would go to bed, I would just paint for three hours, and I began to build it. Took the pressure off of, like, trying to figure it out and know exactly what you want to do, and then just being like, What the hell do I want to do? Like, if money's not part of it, and I just want to paint. I don't know what to paint. I don't I have to dig into me. I have to be self reflective. And then I just started creating, and then I started to show in galleries, which, again, once you get into a gallery, that doesn't mean you're going to sell in a gallery. I think I sold one painting over two years, and then I just positioned myself to have a body of work into another gallery. And then, you know, you know when you follow your bliss, I think, which I began to kind of look internally at what it is I wanted to paint, and then it began to come out in the right way, and ever since then, I've kind of followed it like a song bird through the woods, like it's not linear. It's not a paved road. I think even Van Gogh said normality is a paved road, but no flowers grow on it. You know, it's been this very non linear, beautiful. Just take it for a ride. I didn't set out to write books, even that just serendipitously kind of happened, even teaching, teaching happened because at Ralph Lauren, I would come home and paint, and then I think I I got into a magazine and I won, like, honorable mention or something. And somebody had saw that they, I was pretty close to them, and said, Would you teach? And I said, I could, if you get three people, I would do it. And then it turned into, like, now I'm a teacher, you know. So there's a lot of interesting things. I think it goes back to the Schopenhauer quote, like, you don't know, you don't know the people that you meet and how they're going to turn you into or push you, or even that you had it in you to do the thing until you're open and and and moving so long winded answer, I guess,

Laura Arango Baier: 47:14

oh no, but it's, it's great because it's, it's windy. That's how it is. That's how life works. You know, you don't, you don't really know what's gonna happen next, you know. And actually, the key, the word that really came up for me when you were mentioning that, is also like surrender. And there's like, surrender and control to an extent where, like, Okay, well, this is the only thing that I know I can handle with my hands, and I know that I can take care of, which is making my paintings and doing the things that are within your control. And then the moment that you know opportunities arise, whether it's someone, Hey, do you teach you have that ability to surrender to that opportunity? Be like, Oh, sure. Why not? Right? There's that openness, like you said, but then there's a bit of that surrender, where it's like, okay, yeah, I surrender some control into the universe, into life, to present these things to me. And then I'm sure that's how it happened with writing your books as well, where you're like, maybe there's, like, I have enough stuff here where, like, I can write a book. Or someone may have told you, I'm not sure what, how that happened, but I'm sure it was also a serendipitous opportunity that you were like, why not? You know, yeah. Do you

Todd Casey: 48:29

want the story of that? Yes, of course, yes. So I'm sure you know Ken, Stella's right from Uh, yes, PCA, he was a landscape painter, so he's, he was there at the same time I was and Ken. Ken's a go getter, and he He's a wonderful magician. He's been on Jimmy Fallon, I think he's been on TV. He like, goes everywhere and performs for everybody, Shaquille O'Neal and he's always like, Yeah, dude, I just stole Shaquille O'Neals and watch. And I'm like, he didn't beat you up. That's crazy. So, So Ken, Ken's a go getter, and Ken got, got a book deal through montilli Press, but he knew that I was an illustrator and I worked in Photoshop, and he's like, I need somebody to help me. So I had just quit, Ralph Lauren 2016 and he was like, Can you help me do the illustrations of the book? And I said, Of course, I never say no to anybody. I'm always like, yeah, I guess I could do that, because I could grow, you know, grow vegetables and make beer. I'll try it once, and if it's terrible, I'll just buy it because it's super cheap at the store. But so he, he came by and we worked, he was putting the book together, and he would be like, can you do this illustration? I'd be like, what are we trying to do here with the concept? And he was like, Well, you know what you're talking about. He's like, You should write a book. And I said, I mean, I guess I would, if I if I was presented with the idea. And he said, you know you should do it. And I think just what happened at the right place, right time. Monticelli. Press had a still life painter that was writing a book, and it wasn't working out, and they were looking for somebody to come in and write one. And Ken just called me up because he's like, he's like, Call right now, call Victoria. And I said, all right. And just I again, I didn't know what, I didn't know. And I just said, like, Hey, how's it going? I know Ken. He said, You look for still a book. I'd be willing to give it a shot. She said, Have you written a book? I said, No, you know, whatever. And I said, let me do the sample chapter for you. And she gave me all the stuff to do, I think was like Wednesday. And I said, Okay, well, I'll get it to you by Monday. Is that alright? And she's like, well, you don't have to get it back to me that fast. And I said, Well, I will just to get it off, you know, not off my plate, but like to get it going. And by Monday, I had sent it to her and and then I waited like, six months for an answer, thinking like, this isn't going to happen. And then my wife got pregnant, and I was like, Well, I hope this book deal comes through sooner than later. And because my some we didn't know if we were having a boy or a girl. And I was like, I don't know baby's on the way it's doing in December and and they got back to me in August, and they said, Yeah, you get a book deal. And I was like, Oh, crap. So I they said, like, how much time do you want? I said, I don't even have. I'm going to claim ignorance here. I don't even know. And they said, Can you get it to us by the end of the year, like, four months? And I said, Okay, sure. And that's what I did. Now, what happened was, my daughter came out early. She She we didn't know we were having a girl. She decided she wanted to come out on my wife's birthday, December 10. Yeah, it was beautiful. My wife called me, told me that her water broke. And I was like, Oh, great. And then I called my mom, and I'm like, Gina's water broke. Does that mean that the baby's on the way? And she's like, you're having a baby today? And I said, it's Gina's birthday. Like, this is crazy. Yeah, I was born on my dad's birthday. So it was like, kind of weird. Oh, that's cool. So what happened was, at the end of the month, the baby came, and at the end of the month, I got an extension. So I got the book done in five months. But that's how it started. And then after that, the book, the first book, the pandemic started. And then I was like, crap. This is, like, the worst time I had an opening for a show which went terribly, because, you know, it was like people, it was the week before everybody masked up, and it was for the artist still life. And then, you know, now we went on lockdown. And then my Victoria called me and she said, your book sold out. And I was like, what? Yeah, which is bizarre, because I knew my mom would buy one, but I know if anybody else would. And I said, That's strange, and it I think, was a function of like, Right place, right time with COVID, everybody was buying books and doing things because they couldn't go out. And she said, this is the perfect time to do a follow up book, if you were considering doing the other one. And I said, Okay, so I did a second follow up book, and now I've got that one's done really well. And now I've got two more books, which I always take a break in the middle. You know, I always think, like, probably I don't know if I want to do another one, and then, and and then I just need time and I do another one,

Laura Arango Baier: 53:25

amazing, amazing, weird, right? You never fit out the right one. Yeah, yeah. It's one of those things that life throws at you. And again, you either say nah, or you say, why not, right? It's that, you know, some of the most wonderful things can happen from that. Why not? I mean, and you mentioned something that I think is also quite key, which is right place, right time, and then right preparation too, because you also were surrendering and open to attempting it in the first place. And then what do you have to lose? Maybe a little bit of time, but you gained experience, yeah, yeah.

Todd Casey: 54:00

And I didn't have any time to give at the time. I was in Westchester, driving to Boston once a week for to teach a class at Mass art in Boston, because I, you know, the same cynicism I have for colleges and teaching the wrong thing was like, Well, I'm going to go back and make a difference and be the change I want to see, rather than just be cynical of it. And yeah, I drove back and forth. But again, I always find beauty and like, what's the positive of having downtime? What can I do with it that will help me with the book? Because just like in painting, I always say, Go, take a break so you're not staring at it. And you'll come back right away, and you'll know, you know, you put six fingers on somebody. You don't see it in the middle of it, unless you're painting the person from princes bride. But you know, so the whole thing was to to on the drive up. What can I do? Well, I can think, and I can think through these things creatively. What are creative ways to kind of bat that around? I don't think that we allow enough time. Time with social media and all these things to really have downtime, allow the mind to take a hold of it, and don't give it any other thing, and you will just be amazed at what it can do. So I used to drive with a pen and a paper, and I would scribble these notes, because sometimes I'm like, Eureka, and then I'd be like a 95 you know, writing, scribbling things down. But then it's just like when you give your mind enough time, and then in the middle of the night, you wake up and, you know the answer, it's like that. That was the downtime I needed away from the book, and then I come right back in the next day. So, yeah, it's a beautiful synthesis, a dance or a waltz between like the projects that I do, and moving them around and allowing them enough time to come into fruition, and also taking the governor off my head that says you can't do a thing, because that's one of the biggest things I think, that gets in the way if you don't have that, you don't know what You can do in a short amount of time.

Laura Arango Baier: 56:04

Yeah, yeah. There are a couple things in there that you mentioned that are so, so, so important, you know, because we, you know, like you said, with social media, with the internet, with all these things, we are just endlessly entertained. Um, which, okay, that's fun, sure, but then, if you are trying to, you know, stop and smell the roses, right? And live life and have like this, this outside sort of view of the world. Instead of always looking down into a phone a little box, it does open you up to more of that creative problem solving. Like, yeah, okay, maybe the internet can give you some answers. Like, if you have a specific question, like, oh, how can I, you know, render this a little bit better? How can I imitate texture on an orange? Sure, the internet has answers, but if you're also actively trying to do it, or, you know, just going out, you're taking a walk, suddenly you'll also get hit with an idea for it, because you gave your your brain, the space and time and energy to expand itself a little bit and to breathe, and that's super important. But yeah, and a lot of that is introspection, which is something else that you mentioned. You know, a lot of the things that we do as artists require introspection. If your goal is to paint better, if your goal is to paint something that means something to you, that fulfills you in some way that takes a lot of what do I like instead of you know, like, for example, looking at social media and being, you know, the victim of falling in love with too many different things, and then suddenly it's like, wait, but do I really want to do this, or do I just appreciate it, because there's a balance, right? It's okay to like something and not do it,

Todd Casey: 57:52

you know? Yeah, we talked about the levy time behind you, and how you love landscape, but you're, you're not interested in doing it. And, yeah, like, I have that same love too, yeah, or maybe I haven't come to loving it as much I have done. Ken does sunset paintings, and I thought, I don't know, I've never done one. Let's go do one. And we did it, and it was like, it was a nightmare. He says it's like painting a speeding train. And I'm like, Yeah, even faster. It's like, the sun set, and I'm like, grabbing my brush, and he's done, you know? And I'm like, like, talking about, like, the sketching part of like, if you can't sketch really quick, you can't capture that some right? And people will just say, oh, take a photo. It's like, that's fine, but you didn't experience it. Like, if I, if I take a photo of, or if I look at a photo of, of the Eiffel Tower, that's different than standing under it and experiencing it,

Laura Arango Baier: 58:49

you know, yeah, totally, totally. And that's another thing that I've mentioned, actually, in past episodes too, but it's, you know, that's also part of the introspection. It's like, do I feel happy and comfortable and fulfilled when I paint really, really fast. Is that something that I can conceivably see myself doing the rest of my life? Or am I trying to box myself into something just because I think it's more convenient, right? Because, yeah, it is convenient to have a high production rate as an artist. Because, oh, you could just take out a ton of paintings, and then, if you're still focusing on growth, of course, then you're taking out tons of paintings that are progressively better, hopefully, and then you can send those to a gallery. And then, oh, great, you know, I have this good influx of cash. But then, if you're a slow painter, you also have to take into account, right? Oh, well, I know this is how it works for me, and this is how I like to do things. But then how can I also manage the economic side, which is, you know, like the different income streams for artists, which you definitely have quite a few of them, right? You have like your Patreon, you have your book, you have your paintings themselves, you teach. Do you find that it's difficult to time manage all of those different income streams, or have you been able to find a good rhythm in there?

Todd Casey: 59:57

Yeah, I'll just say in regards to what you just said. People should just be careful of the treadmills in which they're embarking on, because you may want to get off and you may not be able to, right? So you know that's we just can be careful. And Hemingway even said you must be willing to write without an audience. And the creative act Rick Rubin says that the audience comes last. If you're at the mercy of the audience, and you're playing to it all the time, you're on that treadmill and you may not be able to get off it, so just be careful. And I've I've had to catch myself. I'm not just saying it to the audience, I'm saying it to myself and reminding myself as a mantra that Be careful. If you start this thing, do you want to continue? And you may have to jump off. I love to manage many projects. Back to your other question about the books and the teaching and stuff. I think what it does to me and the positive that it brings is that it allows for time away from a project, somebody even like Malcolm Gladwell talks about it. I took the master class during COVID. I think everybody took it or didn't take it, but watch all the videos. And he was talking about something that I was like, Yeah, that's what I do, too. Is like to take and create something in the take it away from you for a while, and then come back with fresh eyes and see what you think about it, oscillating or rotating between multiple projects allows me to kind of take that that break. It's also why I used a garden. Get out of the studio, go see the sun, right? But, but all these things that just take us away, I don't think it's bad to go on Instagram. I think it's actually fun sometimes. And I love the meme some of my friends send it's, it seems like what all it is these days, but, but allow for enough time. You know what we do with my my six year old daughter, is we allow for time, and then we put a timer on, and then we say, like, that's enough screen time. Now we're going to get away from it. We're going to do something else. Because human nature is just to kind of go down that rabbit hole. And you could get stuck in a day could go by, or a week could go by, and you watch Breaking Bad seasons one through six, and you haven't done anything, and you're like, I feel like crap, and I'm still on the same clothes that I was in a Monday and it's Friday. So just figure out, as you said, be introspective, finding out those rabbit holes that we get caught in, or our own things that we do, and then just try to put up a barrier so you you don't get stuck in them, is what I'd say. So I oscillate between projects. It allows for me to come back with fresh eyes and then critique myself as a different version of myself. It could make it better,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:02:43

totally, totally. And what you mentioned about, you know, rotating through these projects and, you know, having time away from them, it's so funny because every, every painting, right? And I was mentioning this too, it's, there's that saying that every painting is unfinished, and I think also because we ourselves are works in progress. So it's like a little snapshot of who we are that moment and what we're knowledgeable of. So being able to rotate through projects, I don't know if this has happened to you, where you go back to that project and the thing that you thought you didn't get at that moment, you're like, ah, that's the problem that I was having, and I just couldn't see it because I hadn't grown through that dilemma yet. But thanks to rotating through the other projects, now I can see it, and now I can see where I hadn't quite grown enough to be able to meet that barrier and rake it through, right? So that, personally, that happens to me when I rotate between, like painting, but then also I like knitting, so I have like, two or three knitting projects at the same time, and then sometimes I might go back to one and be like, that's the thing that happened that went wrong, or, Oh, that's what I couldn't understand. And then suddenly I get a little bit upset, because then I want to unravel a little bit and start over, because now I do it, I can do it better, but it's the same with painting. You know, we're like, oh, man, I want, I want to paint this all over again, because I know how to do it even better this time, right? So I think that's really useful. Yeah,

Todd Casey: 1:04:11

I think, you know, Max Ginsburg, he's 93 I think now, and I think it like the age of 91 I had asked Max, why do you, why do you still paint from life. Why do you do portraits? You know? Because he's just painting every day. And he said, I just feel like I'm getting better every day, you know. So I, I'd say that we, we have this ability, you know, if you do get into the mode of, like, keep growing every single day and getting better, but yeah, you're going to see more than you saw last week. And I think Alan Watts is the one who said, You're not obliged to be the same person that you were five minutes ago. Lewis Carroll had something similar where he's talking about Alice in Wonderland. He says, I don't want to go back to yesterday, because she comes back from going down the hall and she's like, because I'm not the same person that I was. So we should continue to. Evolve, if you're into growth daily, then yeah, it could happen in a day. It could happen in a week. There are definitely, like, demos and stuff like that where I think are just wonderful that I've done and they have died, or that's the life cycle of them, which is just to end them and not continue. But then there are even notes that I've left around unintentionally to myself to remind me, either accidentally, consciously or unconsciously, of like, Hey, look at what you can do if you let go a little bit, and you're not painting from your head and from your heart. And it's just just this equal balance, always, of introspection, study, other people, study my work, make sure that the direction that I want to go is where I want to go. But also, you know, maybe you you had something else, and you've changed in a bad way or a good way.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:05:53

Yeah, yeah. That's, you know, the human condition, as they say. And I think that's really interesting too, because it kind of reminded me also of, like, what you were saying about, like the you know, you took these opportunities without realizing that they would lead to something that would lead you here, right to who you are at this moment and what you've done. And that's, you know, that being open to that growth in the first place, right, being, you know, aware and just receptive to it. Because if you're not like you said, you know you could change from one day to another, but you have to have that. I mean, sure, there are outside circumstances that will force you to grow, but then there are, you know, the interior incentives of like, well, I've never written a book before. Why not? Right? I have, you know, the opportunity, and they're seeking the exact thing that I have. So why not? Right? You, you didn't say, oh, no, I'm not going to do that. Because imagine what would have happened if you said, Nah, I'm not going to do that. Like, how? Like, that would have changed your entire life in one aspect, right? So it's yeah, that openness is so important. Yeah,

Todd Casey: 1:07:01

for me, I'm always, I'm just curious, always curious, and I'm, I have no problem with failing, like if it, if it sucks, you will forget, and another day will go by. And I think it started with sketch sketching and sketch books and grabbing a pen and just acknowledging that that is you and where you are, and you can't hide it. That's the pen mark you just made. You could make a choice to make it better, and it's going to come with a lot of time and energy, but flip the page that happened, you cannot change it, and just accepting it one step at a time. And then if you look back at that sketchbook at the end, there was tremendous growth. It wasn't where I wanted to be, but it was. It was documented growth. To look from front to back and be like, Wow, that's it's there. So,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:07:54

yeah, yeah. And I this is something else that that just reminded me of, which is, and I like comparing life to a video game sometimes, but life is just like this open world exploration video game, like role playing game, and you can literally do anything, right, if you're open to it. It's like, oh, there's that path over there. The leads, some are new, and I have not tried that. I'm gonna go through there right and then suddenly, kind of like how someone asked you, like, Oh, are you going to join us for drawing today? You're like, what? Like, suddenly, there you are drawing with a bunch of people in the evenings. So it's

Todd Casey: 1:08:28

Yeah. You just Yeah. I think it gets dangerous. I think when the treadmill is what you're on, and then you're producing for the audience. And that's why I just say Instagram tends to be that in which you know, if you have to do that thing daily and you don't want to do it, you know you're there, but if you're able to just create and not care and then say, that's a note, that's all it is like I was doing these palette knife paintings, talking About, back to our conversation about painting from photography. I was, you know, I I was told at Water Street that we weren't supposed to paint from photographs, right? I was like, Okay, I guess I forgot, because I went home and I had all these photos of, like, you know, sun setting and stuff. And I said, I don't know what all my brushes do. I don't know what some of these mediums do. I'm just going to do a palette knife painting, and I did and then I just did a bunch of them, and I finished my grad school online, like, two years ago, and got my masters. And I was like, it was an opportunity to explore and play and not care, and then get some feedback on it. And it ended up being a facet of my business, because now I show them up at a gallery up in Vermont, which I didn't intend to. I was more just out of curiosity, saying, like, I can play with this medium. I don't know what col wax does. Have I ever done a palette knife painting? No, but the governor on my head didn't say you can't do that. It just said, Well, I guess you didn't get the memo today that you could. Do it, and then you just do it. And then afterwards, you could say, is this heading in the right direction or not? And sometimes it just takes like 10 more of them to have like introspection, to say, even if I made one mark in the other paintings that could make this influenced it served its purpose. You know. So when I go to, like, museums, and I look at the work of artists that I'm not supposed to like, like the Franz Kline and, you know, a lot of these modern artists that are all mark making in color, that's what I'm looking at. I'm like, there are textural elements in, like, even a booger old background painting that has palette knife in it, that this is an extension of that we're just not looking at because we're we're myopically stuck over here, but I'm looking at like the rest of the museum, and saying, Is there any connection? There is, you know, yeah, yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:10:57

I mean, all art is derivative, right? Of reality. And then, you know, we, we, of course, have the bold masters, and then that evolved into something else. And then camera happened, that evolved into something else, right? It's inevitable. And now we have this open playing field where we can grab as many tools as we want from any toolbox we want and do whatever the heck we want. I mean, there's nothing to stop us and like, I love that you, you know, keep repeating, like, don't pay for the audience. Like, follow your own curiosity, follow your own motivation and desire to Hey, I wonder if you put this in this together, because that's where the magic happens. It isn't like, oh, I need to find my voice immediately so I can sell work because I want to be an artist. No, no, stop. Stop, right there.

Todd Casey: 1:11:40

Yeah, I think Travis slot. You know, Travis, yeah. So Travis had a great quote. He used to have it on his studio wall, because I used to paint with him. I love Travis's work, and I love the everything he combines into mark making and classical realism. He had this quote, and it said, do paintings you'd hang on your wall, because they're probably going to end up there anyway. And the point of it is that you should be happy in the process of making it. It's not for like, I'm sure you're like me, like whatever comes out of it at the end is great, and I hope the painting looks fantastic at the same time, I really want to love the exploration and the journey in the middle. I don't want to always exactly know what's going to happen. It's not it's not boiling it down to a formula from A to Z, and I just am taking from a and putting over it's not a pixel that I just move from here and then I just take one piece at a time and put it over there. Anybody could do that. You know, it's much more complex than that. It's a journey. It's an exploration. I'm not quite sure what's going to happen. I'm going to take a risk. Maybe it may be big one, depending on how I feel today, maybe a small one. Maybe I don't want to take a risk. I don't know. I don't take huge risks on commissions, because I'm like, the stakes are much higher. But then if somebody's like, paint whatever you want, then I'm like, Yeah, I'll take a I'll take a risk on a commission. But the point of it is, is a very romantic way I think of paying paint painting I say I'm more like, what's his name, Jim Carrey, in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which linearly, he was going into Manhattan on the train, and he jumped onto the one to Long Island because his heart told him, even though he erased his mind, tell him not to do it. But he still followed his heart, you know. So this is, like, I think, a romantic side in artists, that we follow that as well. It's a balance for everybody. Some people pay more with their head. They just want it figured out. They just want to pull from A to B. I don't particularly care if it floats your boat. Makes you happy,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:13:46

exactly. Yeah, the I really love that quote by Travis, Travis, because, I mean, come on, like, I do have paintings of mine that are hanging on the walls, and I'm like, well, at least I like them enough to put them there, and then the ones that I don't quite like, they're put away, of course. But yeah, it's true. You have to be the first person who likes your work. Yeah.

Todd Casey: 1:14:08

Thing too is, like, sometimes when people come over and I have something hanging up and they, they don't, it doesn't mean anything. I'm like, it doesn't have to. I don't care. It's on my wall. Like, I chew it. The other thing like, people should collect art. If you're making art, you know, what are you looking at daily that you are admiring in the sense that you hope somebody admires your work. I think Hawthorne said that you don't find love in the thing that you're doing. How do you expect somebody else to you know? So I have a bunch of paintings than I just stand before and they just twist my mind, you know, make me think differently. And it's beautiful to stand before them and look and go to museums all the time too. And

Laura Arango Baier: 1:14:52

museums are key to that. If anyone can go out and, you know, go to a museum, it's so important because there's nothing more awe inspiring than I. Yeah, especially when I look at, like, for example, I was in Stockholm, like, two months ago, and I was in there one of the national museums there, and they had, it was great, because obviously they have, like, the Rubens paintings. And close to the Rubens paintings, you have the Van Dyke paintings. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, you know the two dudes, right? Who one learned from the other and other hanging together. And it's so first of all, obviously their work is beautiful, their brush strokes, their storytelling, their narrative, the economy of their brush strokes, but then also just the beauty of being before paintings that have been hanging long after their creators have passed. It's very awe inspiring, and it makes you also want to do your best with your work, because maybe one day, your work eventually might end up end up in some random Museum in a random country somewhere else, where other people will also be thinking the same thing, like, wow, that is amazing. And that's the cherry on top, right? We have to make work that we like first, and we have to do our best with ourselves and with our own special flavor that we want to give to the world. And then from there, everything kind of grows out. It's really funny how people try to see it backwards where they they want the after effects so bad that they'll work for those not realizing that those are just collateral benefits of that introspection, that inner work that you know work also on just being receptive and open to yourself and your own, the old beauty that you see in the world you know,

Todd Casey: 1:16:38

yeah, you have to love the process of what you're doing, and it can't be for the latter. And I think not to you know Eckhart toll is a great one. Do you know Eckhart toll? Yeah. I mean, he, he begins his book by saying, the the sun will supernova. Like, get over it. Like, like, what if? What if my painting, or your painting, were in any of those California fires, it would be gone, right? So I hope at least you enjoyed the process of making it right, like we have no control of what happens after it's made, even if the it goes to Museum. Plenty of museums have been looted. Plenty of them have burnt down at the end of the day we're here in this time, all we have is now, I hope you enjoy the process of making that painting, and you're not just at the mercy of hoping that it gets your fame or something like that, you know. So, yep, you can at least put it on your wall right Travis,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:17:42

and as they actually, I think there's a quote from Gilder and Lockhart where it says, fame is a fickle friend. He probably pulled out from somewhere else too, but it's yeah, it's if you're painting for fame, I hope that you have powerful friends, because that's a lot easier. But if you're just like every other person out there who wants to be an artist, just, just do it because you love it, you know? And I think most of us do, in fact, do it because we love it. So, yeah,

Todd Casey: 1:18:09

look at Van Gogh. I mean, Van Gogh sold one painting in his life, and he was miserable. He found joy in painting. It's the only thing he found joy in and now, years later, he's like Van Gogh, like everybody looks at him as the expressive artist, and then you have somebody like Bouguereau, who was huge in his time. And then, like, you could buy his paintings for nothing, like 50 years ago. So it's like nobody's in control of any of this stuff. It fades. Fads come and go, and our work should be created in the moment and enjoyed, at least by

Laura Arango Baier: 1:18:44

us. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, I mean, again, there's that Right place, right time, and receptivity, and all of these, you know, interesting ingredients that we can't always control that go into it. And that's that's basically life. And then, do you have any advice for someone who wants to become a full time artist? I know we've said a lot of really good advice now, but is there, like, one thing that you think they should really focus on,

Todd Casey: 1:19:18

focus on making sure that you're doing it out of the love for it. I mean, you know, a lot of the time I started by saying I like basketball, but basketball is kind of like the perfect example of it like a sport. Now I played, I played high school basketball. I didn't play college. I played a little bit of college, by the way, and then from college goes into the pros, right? But if you were to look at each one of those facets, you could look at us as artists in high school, as being the you and I were probably the best artists in our high school. Right from there, you're going to college, and you're taking all the best high school artists and putting them in one space, right from there, you know, you can think about this. Back to the sports analogy, then you have all the best basketball players from each high school in college now, and NBA only drafts 60 players to go pro, and there's 128 teams, or 64 I can't remember how many in the Final Four that's out of all of the colleges in the country. And each team has 15 players on it, and 60 of them are going to make it to the next game, and 30 of them come internationally. Now these keep funneling down into like you may be great here, and then great here, and now you're getting into an atelier with all of the greats, and one may emerge, even if you're the best in the atelier. That doesn't mean anything, because all of this comes down to desire to keep going. And a lot of the time I think I'm just the one that was passionate about this and just kept going and without a care of like making money, because I can't not do it. It's a part of me. If you find art in that same way, you will probably make it, because making it has nothing to do with financial making it, it's just like be tenacious, and if you have a passion for the thing, just keep going and do it for life. The beauty of this, for me, is that the basketball analogy most professional artists are done at 40, unless you're LeBron James and you're still playing. So I don't have to be at the mercy of any physical limitations. Unless my arms don't work anymore. I can continue to grow. Like I said, Max Ginsburg, at the age of 92 he still feels like he's getting better. It's an it's a thing that can just keep adding to your life, to study other things and bring in external you know, as you said, science, or maybe whatever it is, piano music or sports. I don't know it the list, it's endless. You talk to all these artists. I'm sure they inspire you as well. You go home and you try out a different technique, or you're you've heard of another artist that you hadn't heard of in the past, and now that's that little spark that pushed you this way, the same way. Have that curiosity in everything that you do. You can learn how to just keep learning forever. It's a it's a very rewarding career or way of living, I should say, not so much. Career. Career sounds like it. It's always money driven, but, yeah, that's my two cents. If you're into it and you like that and you're doing it all the time, don't worry, you're creative and an artist, and everybody has it in them. It's just whether or not we've beaten it out of them, telling them sets of rules that they have to like this or that, if, if you start to hear that, I think it's time to leave and then be introspective and find out what it is you want. That's what I did when I went to grad school, because I lived in a little, tiny apartment by myself, and then every day I just drew and then found out, like, what is it that I want to do? Nobody can tell me what that is. You know. Yep,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:01

totally that open world role playing game that we're in right now. You could Yep, there's nothing to stop you from. I don't know. Hey, maybe I want to go skydiving tomorrow and just do that. Why not? Why not? If you have the means and you have the way to do it, do it. What if, when

Todd Casey: 1:23:17

you're skydiving, you down and you're like, I want to paint from photos of aerial views of the Hudson Valley, you know. And if nobody has told you that you can't paint from photography, you may make beautiful paintings. But if somebody has, and then you're trying to live to somebody else's shackles that they put on you, then you're at the mercy of them. And if you remove all shackles, the world's your oyster.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:23:40

Yes, definitely. Oh, man, really great advice. And then, of course, since you teach and you have wonderful books where can people actually know, do you have any upcoming shows and upcoming exhibitions, or any upcoming workshops that you'd like to promote? Yeah,

Todd Casey: 1:24:02

it's going to be, you know, obviously it's May 2, 2025 so I'll just say that, and some of them will come and go. But may, I think 17th at the guild of Boston artists, I'm a member. I'm doing an artist demonstration. It's free if anyone does want to go. There's also a member show that will be open if you're in the Boston area. I also show at Ray's Gallery in New York City. They have a show up now called Bloom. I have a painting in there. I teach at Lyme Academy. They have a faculty show coming up. And I don't know, you know, I'll probably think of something else after this that I forgot to mention, but yeah, just I show up in Vermont at Bryan Gallery, and also Simi marvelous in Provincetown. And you know, plenty of paintings. Here's what, what I would say to the audience, go see art in person. That's the way it's meant to. Be, you know, Instagram is fine. I get it for people that are kind of overseas or far but like, go see it in person. We're creating jewel like things in which the interaction of light is there's a human component to it, the scale of it, the way in which it's lit, the way in which we've created texture, all of these things that you know, that's the way it's intended. So go see it in person.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:25:26

Totally, yes. And then where can people see more of your work?

Todd Casey: 1:25:31

Yeah, so those galleries, but also Todd. Casey.faso.com, I have stuff on my website. I try to update it. I am on Instagram, if anybody is interested. Facebook newsletter is better, because with AI and image scraping, I don't know how I feel about it all. So I'm usually less posting these days. But yeah, minimum. Patreon for anyone interested in videos of how tos. There's plenty in the artist still life, the oil painters color handbook. There's even a cocktail book out. There's a whole story on that too. That I got the cocktail book and the color book within two weeks, because typically books, they say, you know, they they took six months to say yes. And I thought, Alright, I got plenty of time to do the two books well. Now they came back within two weeks, and I had to navigate how to create the oil painters color handbook and then do 32 paintings for that cocktail book. No cocktail books on the brink, but, yeah, two more books in the way. But the books are also, you know, a good way to get my teaching and also take, I don't just put my paintings in my books. I think it's I could easily do that, but I'd rather be more like rising tide raises all boats. There are plenty of other artists out there that are doing fantastic work, and I just like to show it and show my taste, and then also grab from museums and stuff like that. So it's actually a lot more work to do it that way, because I could easily just make it a Todd Casey book, but it's never my intention.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:27:11

Yeah, yeah. We stand on the shoulders of giants. I mean, a lot of us, especially when we study at the academies or illustration too, there are a lot of people that we've learned from, even inadvertently, because all of these processes get so carried down from person to person person, and then it evolves, and then suddenly, you know, like the academic style that we may have learned, or even the palette that we use may have come from, you know, I don't know, even like then ache or something from way back when, because it continues down the line. So yeah, it's totally great. And like you said, rising tide looks all boats. We all have such different voices as artists that it's inevitable that we're we should all appreciate each other, first of all, and then second of all, like I don't, I don't truly see other artists competition for that reason, because we're all so different and we all have such different perspectives, so it's good to, you know, uplift everyone. Yeah,

Todd Casey: 1:28:08

comparison is a thief of joy, so don't compare yourself. Just paint and bliss. At least, do for yourself. At least you'll make one person happy. Most important one,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:28:20

exactly. Yeah. Well, thank you so much, Todd, for this awesome conversation, all of these great, golden nuggets of advice. I'm definitely inspired to go take a walk and

Todd Casey: 1:28:32

then paint. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:28:36

of course. You.