Heather Arenas: 0:00

Learn how to take yourself past the copying point. Being able to paint what you see and only what you see, is great, but there needs to be a point when you put you into the painting, put yourself in on the canvas. I think that people need to learn to put themselves on the canvas, because that is their voice. That's the only way that you can express you in a painting, if you are just copying the way somebody else did it. That's how they do a painting, you know. So figure out what your shtick is. Basically. Welcome

Laura Arango Baier: 0:34

to the boldbrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the boldbrush video is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast that covers art marketing techniques and all sorts of business tips specifically to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers, as well as others who in careers tend to the art world in order to hear their advice and insights. On today's episode, we sat down with Heather arenas, a figurative oil painter who loves so many stories through her work, she discusses her journey from medical school to becoming a full time artist, while emphasizing the importance of practice community and finding one's unique voice. Heather also shares insights on her creative process artistic influences and routine relationships with galleries and elders. She also advises aspiring artists to put themselves on the canvas and persist through the highs and lows of an art career. Finally, Heather shares exciting news about her artwork being included in the lunar time capsule and her online workshop. Welcome Heather to the boldbrush show. How are you today? I'm great. Thanks

Heather Arenas: 1:35

for having me on here. I really appreciate it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:38

Thanks for being here. I really love your energy. You have this spunky, let's just get it done, energy. And I love it because it's very Go, go, go, and it really motivates me.

Heather Arenas: 1:53

That's who I am, I guess. Rest for the wicked, right?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:59

Yeah, yeah. And I can also see it in your work, because your work also has a bit of that vibrational, sort of feeling of movement, which I also really, really love, aside from the fact that I love that your paintings are technically, especially the series, your museum series, is like painting within a painting, which is really intense. I'm always flabbergasted when I see paintings within paintings, because it's like, oh, I imagine doing a small master copy instead of your painting. That's a lot,

Heather Arenas: 2:27

no, and it's funny, it didn't start out that way, but it has kind of become that way. I i have learned a ton by painting all these little master copies of things, and mostly it's economy of brushstrokes, because I'm working in this tiny little, you know, two by four or whatever, inch space, and I'm trying to cram a John Singer Sergeant piece that is massive into this tiny little thing. Well, how can I get it across that? This is the painting. The other thing is, I'm painting it with a limited palette, and I know it's not the same as what the original artists used. So I may be using his arm palette, the white, yellow, red, black when they used, you know, 1015, colors. I have no idea what was used in the beginning. I don't do the research. I just am observing. And some I observe in person. Others I just look up in a book or, you know, or on the web or whatever, and use them in my pieces. But it's been a lot of fun. I haven't, oh yeah, a lot of fun doing those pieces.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:32

They look fun. They definitely, especially the people and the characters that you put in there and how they're peering into the painting. But before we dive into Yeah, all of your painting stuff. Do you mind telling us a bit about who you are and what you do?

Heather Arenas: 3:47

Well, I'm Heather arenas, which I think that you probably know that already, but I basically paint figurative work in oils to tell stories of the human condition. So I'm using my own feelings about the world and relating the people together in the scene to tell my story and stories that I'm familiar with. Basically that's, that's what my work is. Yeah, I think that every painting has to have a story for it to really sing. And I didn't necessarily start out that way, but since I have been doing that, my career has really taken off. So yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 4:34

yeah, it makes sense. Because, I mean, I find that historically, right? And from for centuries and centuries, humans have always been attracted to story, right? And to that, that human connection, and I'd like that in your work, it's very meta, because we're looking at a person looking at a painting, right? But we're looking at a painting of a person looking at a painting. So it's very like, yeah, it's really cool. Yeah. Well,

Heather Arenas: 5:00

I specifically put black frames with the gold lip on them, so it's a framed painting within a frame painting. And I have Contemporary Gallery gallery, several contemporary galleries like to have work unframed, but I prefer my frames on the work because they are further tell the story of what I'm doing, you know, and I these are all custom made frames by my husband, who we work together to get that specific style that I wanted that I just couldn't get elsewhere. And I don't think artists can really pay retail price for frames anyway. So I'm very, very fortunate to have an in house woodworker who will do whatever I want. Pretty much.

Laura Arango Baier: 5:47

He'll make all your crazy ideas come true Exactly.

Heather Arenas: 5:50

And I mean, he can make them very slimline, uh, contemporary or ornate. Um, so it's whatever fits the piece which is

Laura Arango Baier: 5:59

really nice. Yeah, that is very fortunate. Um, it makes me want to, like, teach, teach my boyfriend to make frames so he can make frames. Oh, you

Heather Arenas: 6:09

know it was, it was financially motivated. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 6:12

it's definitely cheaper to do it yourself. Exactly, yeah, um, but yeah. Also, before we dive into all of that too. I want to go to the beginning of it all like what, what was the moment that you decided to pursue the path of the artist?

Heather Arenas: 6:31

Well, when I was about four years old, I had decided to pursue the path of an artist. I was drawing and sketching everything and painting on everything when I was really little, but my family, basically, my parents, pushed me into something would be a little bit more lucrative, and they basically didn't want to see me fail, so they're like, You got to get a job that makes money. So my love of the human body extended way back then, and I actually went to medical school, and I was studying to be an orthopedic surgeon, and got into school, I mean, had my bachelors and everything, got all the way into med school, and in the first quarter, I'm like, This is insane. This is not the person that I am or want to be. I'm not type A enough for it? Well, maybe I am, but I just didn't see the long term path there. And so I quit med school, and then tried everything under the sun after that to find the job that was right for me. I worked for a chiropractor. I had an alpaca ranch for a while. I had 60 alpacas at one point, and I loved having them, and it's actually what started me into my professional career as an artist, because I started drawing the animals and selling portraits of the animals to other alpaca breeders. So I'd go do a show, and I'd put a drawing on the table at the show and get custom portrait commissions. And eventually I started making more money at the commissions than I was at the farm, so it was easy to kind of wean myself off of the animals. Now, at the same time, my husband and I had an IT business, and I was the next thing that I was doing was a database architecture. I wrote SQL databases for the web, and so it's a lot of right brain, left brain stuff, and I kind of attribute that to my my successes attributed to that now, because I have a business brain as well as the artistic brain. So with the IT business, I just started cutting back my hours a little bit more and more, and I was painting from life three or four times a week, and I just started doing it more, and eventually got my it hours out down to part time. And then the next thing you know, I'm barely doing it. And so we decided, Okay, it's time to sell the business and to jump off. And my husband went and got a job elsewhere, and I started painting full time at that point. And so happy I did at the time, I was pushing 40. I was like 38 years old, and it took me that long to get to the point where I finally could say, Okay, I'm a professional artist. I'm going to do this. And at that point in my life, I was like, If not now, then when, you know, I mean, there's, there's kind of an aha moment that comes when you're in your late 30s, you're like, I'm I'm at the halfway point. It's time to start doing the thing that I said that I wanted to do my whole life, and I was luckily, not lucky, fortunate, I guess, to have the skill that I got myself into a couple of galleries, and by the time I went full time, I was already in the galleries and started to sell so. So it wasn't like I quit cold turkey one thing and jumped into the other thing. I transitioned between the two things so that I would still have a paycheck, and went from one paycheck to the other, rather than nothing in between. So that was important to me and to my family, you know? I mean, I had, I have a daughter, and putting it all on my husband was not in the cards for me. I just didn't feel right about doing that, so I wanted to make sure that I had a somewhat of an income. So there you go. I'm sure I have answered multiple questions there, but

Laura Arango Baier: 10:39

you did. You did, yeah, yeah. And I really love how life took you every which way, and you were stubborn, and you said, No, painting, painting. And that question that you asked yourself of If not now, when that is such a key question to ask yourself, because there's never, like the perfect time for anything, right? You just have to make it work somehow. And I love that you had that stubbornness, that strength and that, you know, go get it attitude, to just say, Heck, yeah, I'm going to do this. And I like that you also said, I want to help my husband at the same time, so it's more of an equal sort of

Heather Arenas: 11:19

effort. Well, his, his support is really what made it possible, you know? I mean, he could see my happiness just grow in painting all the time. I mean, when I so to back up the truck a little bit, when I decided to really go after painting full time, I knew I had to have all the skill that I had not nurtured up until that point, because I didn't go to art school, I went to medical school, I went to, you know, database school, all that kind of stuff. So I didn't have the art school experience. And so I did a couple of things. I read a blog post by Noah Bradley, I think was his name. And I don't know if the guy is still around or what, but it was called don't guard art school, and he basically recommended all of these things that you could do in order to replace your art school training, which I never had. And there was a whole bunch of books in there, like the art spirit by Robert penrai, but just a ton of different reading. I got all the books. I read them all. One of the other things was to paint from life. And so I made myself go paint from life. I planner painted for a year, accepting every opportunity that came my way. I completely burned myself out in that year and year, because I did every clean air opportunity I could get my hands on, just because I knew I had to learn and I had to learn it by doing it. And also I was really fortunate to be a part of a model group where, I mean, not to name drop, but I was in Denver at the time, and I had some powerhouse artists to work with, Kim English, Dan Beck, Quang Ho, Daniel sprick. These guys were at the painting groups that I went to. I just was fortunate that we were friends, you know. I mean, it all worked out. Okay, so through osmosis, I learned a lot about painting. I just was in the room, you know what I mean, and watching over people's shoulders and things like that. And even so, there's still the miles on the brush that you have to do. I mean, I didn't just go paint with them. I painted at home incessantly. I mean, stacking up the the Masonite panels, and, you know, I painted on whatever surface I could get my hands on, because I knew they weren't necessarily finished product. They were just practice. And so just kept painting and painting and paying and run get a good one. I'd offer to the gallery. So anyway, that's, that's pretty much how I got my start, and now that group of artists is kind of dissolved. We've all moved our separate ways out of that area. I'm now in Florida, and I'd love it here. Mind you, I would not trade it for the world, because I am, I'm a Jersey girl originally, and I love the humidity. I love being able to grow whatever I want to grow. And in Colorado, I couldn't necessarily do that. So it was a, it's a semi arid desert there. Here you stick a piece of wood in the ground. It grows into a tree. So, basically, so I am, I am loving it here. Now I'm the next thing on my list. I'm trying to grow my community here like I had there. It's a little bit more difficult because I'm about 45 minutes outside of town, and I. Yeah, it's not the same. There's a lot of retired people who are not necessarily professional artists. They're they're just wanting to go paint, and I'm wanting that the camaraderie of other professional artists. And so I'm looking for more of that. But so if anybody Florida area wants to get together for a critique group, or, you know, whatever, I have been working with Katie Dobson, Cundiff, and we have art talks every once in a while, and I host a group here occasionally. So just hoping to see that grow, that would be really nice. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 15:33

yeah. It's, it's, you know, I like that. You bring up the point of having a community, right? And the fact that you also were seeking that out before, right? And you ran into such great painters, which I do agree. It's a little bit like osmosis, right? Where, once you surround yourself with really great people, it pulls you up, right? Because, absolutely, yeah, because there's, there's no other way to go, basically, like they'll just pull you up. And that is so important, especially if you don't, either don't want to go to art school or want more of hands on experience, just direct like the way that you went, then, yeah, definitely seeking out others who are like minded and who are very experienced to work with directly is really, really key, right? Yeah, oh,

Heather Arenas: 16:18

the feedback I had heard was that most of what people learned didn't come from art school. The professional artists I knew had said basically they didn't learn how to be a professional artist in art school unless they were abstract artists. That's a different story. But really, the way they learned to do it is by painting. Just get out there and paint. And so I'm really happy that I did that. I learned a lot. And, you know, as far as my my skill goes, I learned a lot of being able to see like, you know, I could see better. I don't know how else to say that, but because I was looking for color or looking for value or looking for whatever, and then the real turning point in my career is when I went from painter to artist, meaning I could paint. I learned how to paint by doing all that life drawing and everything, but when I then put my voice on the canvas is when my career really took off. So I applied all of what I learned in the the life drawing to telling these stories that are coming out of here. You know? I mean, they're they're not right in front of me. I have to completely make them up. And sometimes they don't even come to me until I'm about halfway through a painting. I'll start with an idea, and then somewhere in the middle of the painting, the name of the painting will come to me like, oh, there's concept. That means I have to add this other character over here, or I have to add this or I have to have these two touching, or, you know, whatever, in order to make the concept happen. And I think that that's a big difference between a painter and art and an artist. Not to brag on myself, but I mean, it's you have to have the first skill in order to make the second skill happen.

Laura Arango Baier: 18:17

Yeah, exactly. And especially with at least with colleges, you're definitely not going to get much in terms of technique, at least, especially if you want to be a realist painter, which most colleges are more contemporary leaning, or more conceptual leaning, or abstract leaning, which there's no hate on that, of course. But if you're a realist painter, definitely skipping the college part is, is very important, and just going straight to books, meeting others, or even today, you know, there are academic painting schools. But even still, you still need the experience of actually trying to do stuff, of experimenting, of like you said, you know, finding color, looking for color, changing the way that you see, and being more accurate, and how you see that that goes much further than any any college class could ever take you. Yeah, yeah. And that's, you know, an excellent point

Heather Arenas: 19:12

before I really decided I was going to paint, I didn't have much access. Well, I shouldn't say access, but I was not seeing a lot of real art out there. I got what I got in high school, you know, the the top 20, the Rembrandts, the dollies, you know, the the ones that they teach you in a basic art class. And it wasn't until I really started going and visiting museums, and that's when I was introduced to a whole other world out there of directions to go, I guess, or that there is no Well, not that there is no bad art, but I mean, like I had not. Seen anything like what I saw in the museums in high school, and that was a long time ago too. So I think really, just visiting museums and galleries and seeing what else is out there in the world opened my eyes a lot, and so I used those trips to the museum as a study time, kind of, you know, I mean, I really would stare like I'd go see an abstract and visit exhibit at the Ringling or because the Ringling Museum is close to me here, and I went in one time, and I took a notebook and looked for the similarities between each of the works and wrote down everything that I could imagine that they were thinking when they painted the piece. And it's like, what is that happening in this other piece? You know, that kind of thing, just taking my own path through school, basically, is what I've done so and to be honest, visiting all these museums has not hurt because I actually scheduled a trip specifically to go to the Met in New York when the John Singer Sergeant exhibit was there and took my camera, and I was taking pictures of the pieces, but also of the people walking around in the exhibit, they all had on those headphones, and I never wear the headphones. I never put myself inside of the somebody else's voice about a piece. I know that there's probably a lot to be gained from it. I know they put a lot of work into it, but I would prefer to walk up to a painting and make my own decision about it, and not necessarily have somebody tell me all of that detail. I can read about it in a book later, but the time that I'm spending in front of a painting is is my time with the painting. Nobody else. But anyway, when I came home and I looked at all the pictures that I had taken while I was in the Met, the woman in the yellow dress kept showing up in my photos, and I thought, well, this is there's something about this. It's serendipitous, or whatever. And the very first painting that I did from the Met, I called it spirits in the Met. And basically was that people were ghosts and the paintings were the realism. So I painted Sargent's paintings realistically, and I abstracted the people in the in the exhibit, and the lady in the yellow dress was in there. And I have never had such a positive response to my work before that. And when everybody was like, holy cow, this is amazing. You know, whatever you should do more of this. I thought, why? What is it about this one that was different? And I realized that I had a connection with the lady in the yellow dress because I imagined her as my grandmother, who was actually one of the first people to give me my art supplies and take me to go see art when I was really, really young, and so I was painting her as my grandmother and and my other grandmother, my dad's side, was the first one to take me to go paint ceramics. And I thought both of these grandmothers influenced me in my art so much that now I'm going to pay homage to them and put them in all these works, and what happened? It started out as homage to them, but then what happened is it gave me this freedom to completely fly off reality and do so much more abstraction in the work. And my brushwork opened up, and the the play that I did in the painting opened up and I just went, let's see. What happens if? What if I do this? What if, you know, and the worst thing that can happen is I have to scrape it off, big deal. But that didn't really happen very often. It just kind of they, they just kind of started flying out of the brush. So there was definitely something to it. And there was a point where I said, I don't know how much longer I can do this museum series. These are getting kind of old, that kind of thing. And I kind of flipped the switch in my head a little bit and said, Really, you can tell any story you want. It doesn't have to have anything to do with what you saw in the Met. It can be you have the story or a word or some motivation, and then build the painting around that. Instead of starting from the subject matter to make the painting, I started from the idea and used the the reference material to make my painting. And so now it's really kind of opened up my world. I can do whatever I want. I'm the artist.

Laura Arango Baier: 24:49

I love that, yeah? And that's a really great point. You know, that reversal of, instead of looking out, looking in, and then making the outside match the in, if that makes sense, yeah? Um, and that, like you said, it becomes more of a game, it becomes more fun. And I'm not surprised that that helped you channel more in through your brush, and that it came out more because you were having fun. You're like, saying, like, the heck with it. Like, I'm just gonna do whatever the heck I want exactly. There's like, it's like, zero risk, because you could just scrape it off. Like you said, if it's not working, I'll scrape it off, or I'll just hide it in a closet somewhere, and I'll try again, because no one's going to see this except for me. Yeah, that's really important, allowing yourself to make mistakes and to experiment.

Heather Arenas: 25:35

Yeah, one of the things that I say often is there are no painting emergencies. There is nothing that is an emergency in my studio. I can do whatever I want. I can fail without consequence. And like I will take a painting that wasn't quite working and I will totally attack it knowing full well that it wasn't a good piece to begin with. What is the worst that can happen. So what, you know, I mean, I throw it on the on the bonfire, and it's gone. You know what? I mean, it, it rarely comes to that. I but I have scraped up, sanded that kind of thing, or I'll remove a character, I'll put somebody back in, you know, whatever I'm just playing, you know, it's a lot of fun. And actually, one of the things that I teach in my workshop too, I've lately decided is really of benefit is I work with the limited palette. And so I will start with three colors, and it may be yellow, red, black, it may be yellow, red, blue, mostly it's those three. And then I'll build out my palette from those three tubes of paint. And what I've been telling my students is, the point of this is that I'm working from the palette up, rather than the reference photo down. A lot of people will look at a reference photo and then find the paint to match what's in the photo, and I'm like, well, that doesn't make a very cohesive piece to begin with. And also, why are you so tied to that reference photo? What would happen if, you know, what, if you did it in purple instead of in yellow? You know, I mean, whatever. But that way you're, you're completely in the artistic side of it, instead of just copying, and again, going back to being a painter versus an artist, copying as a painter. Artist is somebody who makes it up, you know. And so I'm trying to encourage more of that in my students, and also just scribbling Outside the Lines. Quit painting inside the lines. I'm like, gosh, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 27:37

exactly, because you can create your own little world on the campus, and that's what matters, exactly, yeah, and actually, I'm curious to know, because you did mention, you know, going to the museums and seeing all these paintings, right? Who would just say have been your the greatest influences in your work?

Heather Arenas: 27:56

Well, obviously, John Singer, Sargent. I love his brushwork. I mean, I can go up and stare at a foot in a painting and just be in complete awe because of his economy of brushstrokes. I mean, he would do just a stroke and it'd be a whole finger, or whatever it was, just amazing. Anders Zorn, I've mentioned the Zorn palette. I do like using the Zorn palette. I love the activity that he had in his paintings, and they're so alive. Those are a lot of fun. I also like Robert Motherwell, you know, the giant black swipes, you know, and seeing some others that were not the big black swipes of motherwell's and just that freedom and expression in the work deep Korn is another one that the movement of the lines and his landscapes. And if you look at his figurative work, he incorporates some of that same stuff in there, or incorporated a live artist, a couple of live artists. Jonas burger, he's a German artist that does a lot of figurative work. There's a giant piece in the Denver Art Museum that made me fall in love with his work, and it is a figurative piece where there are people from various scales in the painting. So there's one giant figure, and then a bunch of medium sized figures, and then a bunch of tiny little people, and they're all crawling in and out of a hole. It's, I can't think of what the name of the painting it is, but his use of greens and oranges and I mean, just amazing color. And this story that evolves out of his work is spectacular. And he's one of my Pinterest inspiration boards. And then the other the other one, this one's a lately, I'm starting to really look at some of the big guys, like Peter Doig, who is one of those artists that sells in the multi billion dollar range. He's my same age, and here he is selling for ten billion or ten million or something like that. And I'm like, What is it, what is it that he. Doing that attracts people to his work, and so I'm kind of studying him right now and just looking into the what and the why. Grayson Perry is another one. He's one of those guys that sells for a ridiculous amount of money, and why. It's because he plays and it's free and he expresses himself. And I want to do more of that. I want it to be me on the canvas. And which leads to me, leads me to one of another, one of my favorite sayings is that people should know that your work is by you. And so I want people to look at the painting and know that I painted it and with this series, I think people really do know that I painted this series. Yes, there are other people who paint people looking at paintings in museums, but that's not exactly what I'm doing here. You know? I mean, if you look a little deeper, it's more about the connection between people and the painting and the story that's created between them. It's not just people looking they're engaging. And so hopefully I'm making a name for myself in the series. And I have other series, you know? I mean, I have what I call lyrical humans, a lot of times when I'm painting and listening to music. And so I have my Pandora playing in the background, and a song will strike me that is connected with the piece. And I haven't listed the names of music to go with the paintings, because I don't want to pigeonhole what people think, but that is inevitable, like I have something running through my head while I'm painting, and so that's why that whole series kind of evolved so, yeah, I'm always looking for the new series. The next thing that I'm going to to whip out, not exactly the next thing

Laura Arango Baier: 31:53

is going to come out through your, your, your play, right? Your, yeah,

Heather Arenas: 31:58

something will evolve, you know, and I think that that's I actually heard somebody say one time that Richard Schmid had a lot of followers, and there were a lot of people that learned to paint like Richard Schmid, even after Richard Schmid was not painting like himself anymore, meaning he moved on and did something else. But there were people that were following him that stuck in this one phase of his work, and they failed to recognize the fact that he was evolving. And so I want to be constantly evolving. I want to be changing my work to fit whatever is either going through my life or through my brain at the time and how it's channeling out through the brush is just let it happen, instead of trying to pigeonhole myself into one thing. You know somebody, somebody asked the other day, what three words would you describe your our career? And I said, on my terms, and that's because I can't make myself be something I'm not. I I have to be able to paint whatever I want to paint, regardless of what galleries or collectors or whoever are asking me for. But I am very fortunate to say that I have collectors of my figurative work end of my business series or and they may not cross over, but there's something in my OOF for everyone.

Laura Arango Baier: 33:29

Yes, at boldbrush, we inspire artists to inspire the world, because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. Boldbrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the boldbrush video, and if you believe that too, sign up completely free@boldbrushshow.com that's B, O, L, d, b, r, U, S, H show.com. The boldbrush Show is sponsored by Faso. Now, more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link, faso.com, forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artist website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal, considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly, e commerce, print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day, step by step, guides on what you should be doing today right now, in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes, so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually. Meet your sales school this year. Then start now by going to our special link, faso.com forward slash podcast, that's F, A, S, o.com, forward slash podcast, yeah, and yeah. And I really love the point you make of allowing yourself to not pigeonhole yourself, right? Because it is very easy sometimes for us to fall in love with technique like someone's technique, because technique is beautiful, especially when you look at Sargent, you look at Schmidt, any of those painters, it's very easy to become so in love with it that you kind of forget that you exist, right, and that your own voice exists and it wants to express itself in its own way. So yes, it is useful to look at figures like that, but it's also nice to allow yourself to evolve past it. And I mean, in the end, anyone can do whatever they want. I'm also the type of person who like, I like to see multiple different figures and then decide for myself what I'm going to steal from each of them to put together, and then allow myself to express it, right? Because I've also had guests who compared a bit to like handwriting, right? You might take, say, for example, a calligraphy class, but eventually, as you keep going, your hand is going to want to move in your own natural way, and that calligraphy will evolve into your handwriting, right, right? So it's a, I feel like it's a little bit like that with painting, well,

Heather Arenas: 36:20

and the people who allow that to happen naturally do. They're the cream of the crop. They rise above all of the people who are doing the exact same thing. You know what? I mean that because you have to be somewhat unique in the art world to make it. And I mean, I'm nowhere. I have not arrived, meaning I don't think I am where I want to be. But that's the great thing about the art world. I did a lot of careers, and I did them really well, and I was pretty good at them. But the nice thing about being an artist is that you never reach the end. You never climb the mountain and get to the top, because there's always something else that you can keep on doing changing. You know, I can change mediums, I could change subject, I could change location, I could change substrate, whatever, and just keep on evolving and learning. And I could do this till I die and never run out of stuff to do, yes, so that's good. I'll never get bored. That's really what it comes down

Laura Arango Baier: 37:30

to, yeah, because, as we mentioned earlier, it's a game, right? It's it's play. It's like that inner child coming out who wants to look at all the fun stuff and try all the fun stuff. And it is very much like that. It's a and I like to compare like a career as an artist, right? I like to compare it to like self exploration and self knowing. And there's always something more. There's always something more to explore in ourselves and how we see the world and how we can express ourselves to understand the world better, and vice versa. It's like a back and forth communication between the two, which is really a beautiful thing, and that's what makes this career so fun as well. Yeah, definitely, yeah. And then I wanted to ask you too, because you know, you mentioned your whole trajectory and how it's been quite an interesting one where you started one place and you just wound up finally able to do what you wanted to do, right? I wanted to ask you what was, or what has been, the biggest challenge that you have faced, career wise,

Heather Arenas: 38:35

the roller coaster, right? I think I anybody who thinks that artists, who are professional artists, don't go through it, you're you're crazy. We all go through it that I come in the house one day and tell my husband, oh, I'm terrible. I don't know what I'm doing. Nothing is sold and ages. This is awful. I should just go get a job at Walmart, you know, whatever. I'm never going to go get a job at Walmart, just so, you know. But then, you know, I'll get a phone call from a collector, or somebody will say something online about how much they love this piece, and that will inspire me to step up and paint even more and harder. And then I'm up on the top of the roller coaster, you know? And I joked about this with my husband, and he said, as long as I get to be the one in the seat next to you with my arms up, going, it's The Sweetest Thing he could possibly say, because I feel like I'm medic sometimes, that I'm just all over the place, but it it's really hard for me, personally to keep painting and stocking up art in the in the studio if it's not selling. I know this about myself that I am motivated by sales quite a bit, and so if my sales go down, it is a decision to step up, step. To the easel. Now, if my sales are going great, I can't paint fast enough, you know what I mean? I'm just like, Oh yeah, yeah, I gotta replace that, whatever. But it's something in myself, but I have had to learn how to deal with that. I am in the business of art, and I know it, and I can't necessarily set that aside, and other people may be able to do that. I love art and I love to paint, but I am motivated by sales. So that affects my my roller coaster ride. So the challenge, the biggest challenge, is when sales drop, like in an election year, or for whatever reason, you know, sometimes it's even seasonal. It's the summer, you know, I one of my galleries is in Charleston, Reiner fine art is up there, and they have been my best gallery to date. I've actually been in 10 or 15 different galleries, and some didn't make it, and some I changed enough that I didn't fit there anymore, so I pulled my work and went elsewhere, and Reinert has been steady and a really good one for me, because they're willing to roll with my not my whims, but they're they're willing to let me kind of explore subject matter, which I think is having a gallery do that is really positive experience. I can't express that. And I have another one that is 33 contemporary. I'm with the poets and artists group 33 PA, and they are they're great because they encourage artists to be expressive and really help with the marketing side of things. So those are my two main galleries right now that I'm working with. But I think that the gallery relationship is really important, and I know that this was one of the questions on your list. Is that, you know, how am I primarily selling my work? And that's how I am fairly remote. I don't get a lot of people visiting my studio for open studio visits, and I've kind of thought about ways that I can get people out here, but really, the galleries have been my best sales outlet, because I can get the prices that I'm asking people don't question when they go into a gallery. They are expecting to pay that amount. I've sold a few pieces on Instagram, Facebook, you know, various social media outlets, but generally that's not my number one source, because I am priced a little higher than your average artist on Instagram, you know. And there are a ton of artists out there, and I think that there's a buyer for every artist just depends on what you're priced at, you know? I mean, so if you aren't necessarily as proficient or prolific, you can probably still find somebody to buy your work. You just need to price it accordingly. You know? I just think that the galleries work the best for me now, as far as students go, my Instagram and Facebook and Kaleido is another one that I use threads I've recently started using, which, you know, I'm on the fence about all of these, but I really believe in having a wide cast net so you can't swing a dead cat, as my husband always says, without hitting me. I mean, if you Google me, I show up for the first, first, like, five pages worth of returns, and it's because I have my work listed all over the place, and so, yeah, I mean, I think my, my name is getting pretty well known, and I'm just trying to be in front of as many people as possible. I used to do a lot of shows. I did. I was once a member of the oil painters America, American impressionist society, the women artists the West, a lot of different organizations. Now I'm kind of funneling it down to just one or two the American women artists I like a lot because of their mission. And I think I'm still a member of the American impressionist society, I'm not sure, but I don't necessarily compete a lot because I don't think it really supports my goals in my business to be competing. That is putting yourself in the room with a whole lot of other artists, whereas I want to put myself in front of collector being the only artist. And so I reach out directly to collectors or through the gallery, and that seems to work a lot better for me. And I also. Don't think you should compete with your art, but that's that's a whole other thing, you know? I mean, because we're all doing something completely different, and it's arbitrary, on any given day, the judge is going to think one person's thing is better than another person's thing. And I also don't really fit into the categories of a lot of these organizations, because I am experimental in some of my techniques, so it's not the norm, and so I never expect to win. So I'm not I'm just not going to waste my money on it. There are plenty of people organizations out there that are trying to get money from artists, and I don't fault those organizations, but there are plenty of coaches and, you know, all of these other things that will happy, be happy to take money from an artist, and I just am not willing to spread myself that thin, right,

Laura Arango Baier: 46:00

Right? And that's a really great point, because there are so many different avenues and so many different ways of getting your work out there. And sure, for some people, it may work that their work does like you mentioned. Especially I love that you made that point. Their work does fit into more of those categories, of those those contests, and they do really, well. There are others who maybe it doesn't fit in. So I'm going to go down this avenue. And I like that you mentioned that because there are, especially today with the internet, there's so many ways to get your work out there. And I love that. You know, you say I'm going to go on threads, I'm going to go on this, I'm going to go on Pinterest, I'm going to go on that, because you'll have more eyes on your work from different directions, and you never, ever know who's going to be like I want that, and they'll follow down that lead and end up at your website, which is the core, right? That's the important part

Heather Arenas: 46:49

as well, right? And it's, I think it's narrow minded to think that the only way I'm going to reach a collector is if I win in a show. You know? I mean, that's not asking very much about collectors. You know what? I mean, I don't want people to buy my work because I have connected with them on a personal level like that. They see it and have to have it because they love the story and it somehow relates to them, you know. And the I can say that about 99% of my collectors, you know that they are buying it because they have connected with that piece, and not just because somebody else told them it was good. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 47:33

yeah. And actually, speaking of collectors, how do you maintain your relationship with your collectors? Do you because I know some galleries, they won't give you the names of collectors, but sometimes we do, we are able to talk to our collectors. How have you maintained a relationship with them?

Heather Arenas: 47:49

But first I will say that your relationship with your gallery is one that you nurture, and my galleries are a partner with me, like we are both going for a good common cause. They want to make money, I want to make money, and so we're going to work together to make that happen. And I think that there are a lot of people who are like, Oh, the calendars are trying to do me wrong, and that's just not the case. They just they want to help you as much as help themselves. So it's definitely a partnership. And so we discuss, you know, whether or not they are willing to give me a collector's name, and am I going to go around them to go sell directly to that collector? Heck no. You know, I mean, I have a understanding with my galleries that I won't undercut them. I won't knock the sale out from underneath of them. Any collector that is connected with the gallery, I'm going to run that sale right through the gallery. So because it benefits me just as much, this is a long term relationship. So that being said, one of the things that I do is, if I know that I am going to deliver work, which the two galleries that I have right now are within driving distance, so I will drive my work to the gallery. And ahead of time, I'll send out a newsletter that basically says I'm going to be at the gallery on this date, and I would love to meet up, come and meet me at the gallery, and we can talk about this piece, you know. And so I've met a few collectors that way who've either already bought my work or have been dying to see the work in person, and they met me there, and we forged a relationship together. That in person thing is just wonderful. I tried to do that as much as possible. Now I have collectors in England, in France, you know? I mean, I'm not going to get to meet every collector or person, but I love it when they engage with me. And so I will, sometimes I'll post a photo. Of the paintings say, sold online on one of my social media sites. And then the collector will come forth and say, Oh, it was me that bought it. And I'm like, great. This is wonderful. Then I have a conversation that I can engage with them and find out a little bit more why they like the piece, a little bit more about them. And so I'm just always open to the conversation, I guess. And to that end, I send out a newsletter once a month or more, and I try to post on my Instagram page two to three times a week. And I'm just me. I'm not nearly as polished as a lot as a lot of the people who post on Instagram and all the videos that they're doing now, I'm like, I try, I do the best that I can, but I am what I am,

Laura Arango Baier: 50:55

yeah, and honestly, the efforts that you're putting in are definitely paying off, right? Because I love that idea of, Oh, hey guys, I'm gonna be at the gallery this day, and I'd love to meet any of you who collected my work. That's that's awesome, because oftentimes I have met artists who are, I guess, since there's that relationship with the gallery, right, and the gallery doesn't always share who your collector is, you might as well, just like, put your foot out there and be like, hey, you know what? I invite you guys to hang out, literally, at the place where you bought my work, or want to buy my work. And that feels a lot more safe, and I don't know, and trying to, quote, unquote, feel those exact collectors out from the gallery,

Heather Arenas: 51:32

yeah, well, and I'll work with the gallery, and they invite people to come and see me too, you know. So if they know somebody who has been interested in my work, they will specifically call them up and say, yeah, there's going to be there on such and such a date, you know? And then we coordinate a time, and I get there, you know, I'm not, I'm not a flaky artist in that I do what I say I'm going to do, I show up. That's 90% of the game, right? It's just show up and then do the work. So Exactly, yeah, it works out really well, though, to have that kind of partnership and understanding with the gallery, yes,

Laura Arango Baier: 52:09

and that goes a long way. Like you said, I know there are artists out there who don't work with galleries, and they do well, and there are artists out there who exclusively work with galleries, and they also do well. And I love mentioning that because, like I said earlier, too. There's so many avenues, there's so many ways, especially with the internet, that it all works out. And I like that you mentioned, you know, also nurturing that connection with the gallery, because they are there, like you said, it's a mutual benefit, you know, they help themselves and they help you, and vice versa. And maintaining that relationship with the gallery is so important, and also one that supports you, like you said, like, if you have a gallery that sees that, okay, this artist wants to go in her own way, and we're welcoming that, like we want that. We don't want them to be, like, pigeonholed as well, because some galleries do that. Um, that's really great. That's like, gold, right, right, well, and, I mean, I

Heather Arenas: 52:58

think that some galleries do that with artists who are a little bit more I guess that tells it all right. Sometimes you do have to kind of narrow down your subject matter a little bit in that, you know, I don't paint, I paint the occasional still life, just for a warm up kind of thing, but I usually don't do any landscapes that don't have people in them. Mountains, trees and streams are done really well by other people. Why do I need to do it? So my body of work is generally the same. It's figurative work. But there are artists who want to paint it all, and they're kind of trying to find themselves. And so sometimes I think galleries are like, you do this really well. What if you stuck with that one thing and wrote it out for a while? And I can't fault them for that, because maybe they see something in an artist that the artist doesn't see themselves, you know. And I guess that kind of happened with my museum series too, because I had a couple of galleries that were like, we like what you're doing there, and the collectors are really responding. And so I was given the freedom to explore it, and that's what I mean by they kind of let me go wild, but I'm still going wild within a context, you know?

Laura Arango Baier: 54:27

And that's also what I mean too, where, like, you still have some liberty in the sense of, like, I want to go in this direction, instead of always painting your museum series, for example, which eventually you will grow out of that, right? And that's the other part about being an artist, and that balance is you have work that you're making for a certain time, and you'll grow into another series and then another series and another series. And it's nice to have a gallery that won't force you to stay within one series, right, right? Let's happen. So it is a great thing that you're. Gallery is supportive in that sense as well. Definitely, definitely, yeah, yeah. And actually, I also wanted to ask you, what advice would you give to someone who wants to become a full time artist?

Heather Arenas: 55:13

Learn how to take yourself past the copying point. Being able to paint what you see and only what you see is great, but there needs to be a point when you put you into the painting, put yourself in on the canvas. I think that people need to learn to put themselves on the canvas, because that is their voice. That's the only way that you can express you in a painting, if you are just copying the way somebody else did it. That's how they do a painting, you know? So figure out what your shtick is, basically. The other thing is, don't let the roller coaster ride just discourage you. I think that it's interesting to me that people who were painting when I first started painting, and they're gone. Now, there are several people that I looked up to that were doing some amazing work, and they just went off the radar, and I don't fault them for that, but it's a roller coaster ride that not everybody can stay on. So if you want to really stick it out. Be prepared for highs and lows and in the immortal words of Dory, the fish from Finding Nemo, just keep swinging. So just keep painting. No matter what you're you're feeling at any given time when I am really in a low my sales are terrible or whatever. I literally just squirt paint out and paint something, anything I can get my hands on, as long as I'm putting paint on the canvas. And never fails once you start things start going and next thing you know, it's been a couple of hours and I've got this painting. They're like, Oh, this is kind of cool. You know, this worked out really well. So it just keep painting, no matter what. If you want to be in this for the long haul, that is probably the best thing I can say. Don't let all the other stuff get you down. Try to ignore the fact that Instagram's algorithm is changing. Or, you know, whatever, just keep painting. Just keep paying

Laura Arango Baier: 57:22

beautiful very well. Said, I completely agree. Yeah, of course, um, yeah, because it is, it is a tough career, in that sense, it's not the constant paycheck that you might get in an office job or Walmart, right? Yeah. So it does take a bit of a strong personality, to be able to withstand it, right? And to to not give up. Because, I mean, like you said, there are people who just can't, can't handle it, and that's fine, you know, it's not for everyone, and people decide what they want to do, but if it is something that someone is really set on doing, and for sure, just painting and rolling with the punches, staying on that roller coaster, not getting off is very important, if it is what they want.

Heather Arenas: 58:06

Yes, I picture myself like Renoir with my brushes taped to my hands. And you know, when I'm 90 years old and I'm still just putting paint on there, I don't know. I mean, I would like to think that I'm going to continue painting long after I'm worried about sales, because I did it when I was, you know, little little, it's in me. It is. I am an artist, regardless of what other things I've done. And so I think that I will always paint, and if you want the sales to come, you paint a little harder, or you paint a little more and develop somewhat of a business brain. I don't think that you can necessarily know that you can't paint in the closet and not put your work out there and still make a living at art. I mean, there are some really amazing artists out there that are just not selling because they don't do what it takes to get it in front of collectors. So I think that's really important to stretch yourself a little bit or find somebody that is willing to do it for you. You know, if you're trying to sell, then you gotta get it out there. That's all I can say about that.

Laura Arango Baier: 59:24

Absolutely, absolutely. It is definitely a balance. I mean, you can't sell work if you don't have work, and you can't sell work if you have work and you don't try, right? You don't put yourself out there. So it is. It's a very solitary career in that sense too, and it's a great idea to have someone to hire someone to help you do that.

Heather Arenas: 59:45

Yeah, well, I mean, if you can afford to do that, yes. I mean, you know, there, I don't, I didn't do any of that, so I can't say that. I I don't know any of the details on it, but wouldn't it be great if we were back in the time when they were patrons who could just. Like, give you a check and say, Here, paint something for me. Oh, that'd be lovely.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:06

Happen again?

Heather Arenas: 1:00:07

Yeah, I did have a collector for a while there that I've actually sold, I think, 28 paintings to this one collector. I mean, that was early in my career, and I really think she was as close to a patron as you can get, because she wanted to see me keep painting. So she kept on buying the work, and now she's not able to necessarily hang all of it, and I feel kind of bad, but it was great to have somebody to support my career Early on, and just have confidence in me. You know, to to say whatever you're doing is the right thing. Keep going. You know, there's nothing like paycheck. There's nothing like somebody writing the check for the work that tells you that you're doing something, right? You know, you can have all of your family pat you on the back and say, Oh, but when somebody writes a check, boy, that really does do it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:12

It does, yeah, especially when it's a stranger, because I feel like with family, it's like, of course they're going to support you. They're your family. They love you, and you know, they want to see you do great, but when it's a stranger who sees your work and responds to it positively, I feel like we're more keen on being positive, more more positive and more faithful. In that sense. Unfortunately for our family and our family, you can trust our family, but at the same time, it's like you have a vested interest here, really.

Heather Arenas: 1:01:42

Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:45

So it is nice when it's a stranger supporting you and wanting to see you grow as well, because they believe in your vision and they believe in you. And that's that was so key. And then Ashley, I know you might have something going on very soon. Do you mind telling us a bit about your upcoming workshop? I

Heather Arenas: 1:02:08

have a couple things going on. Actually, I have my workshops. They're kind of not rolling, but they're four week workshops, four sessions where I basically help people loosen up a little bit and color outside the lines. Basically, we talk about things like painting from the palette up, rather than the reference photo down. And I just and trying to help people see differently. And so far, I've taught this a couple of times, and I'm getting a really good, positive response from it. So that next one starts out some it's going to be the end of August. The specific date and time will be set by whoever signs up for it. So when I have all five students, then we will get together and set the time and date. And then, you know, when I decide I'm going to do another one of those down the road, then I announce it, and it'll be out there for people to sign up. But right now I have four spots in that workshop available. So one of the other things that I have going on, I'm participating in the American women artists show expanding horizons, that is at the Loveland Museum in Colorado, coming up September 12, I think, is when that one starts. And my Colorado connection is, I wanted to make sure to get into that one, because then I can go visit family and meet up with some of my artist friends while I'm there, which is always fun. The camaraderie of it is great to go to the shows so and it is one of my museum pieces that is in the show, which is always fun to me, to see those pieces get into shows, because then I I feel like, okay, somebody else can see what I'm doing here. You know, I exactly, definitely, I direct people to my website to find my work, because you can link to the gallery that is holding the work. From there, it's basically a holding point for all of them, and that way, I kind of control the images that are going up, and you can see bodies of work together rather than just one piece at a time. So definitely direct people to Heather arenas.com and that's where you can sign up for my workshops too. And you know, whatever I have going on, it's usually linked to the website. And. Some way, and I do update it a lot. I literally put a piece on there five minutes before starting this podcast. On Instagram, I'm Heather arenas, and I have a Facebook business page, but either my Facebook or the business page will work Heather arena's fine art, um, threads. I'm Heather arenas. I have a Pinterest page, which I actually have a couple of inspiration folders on there. If anybody wants to go look at them, there's inspiration one and inspiration two. And I put an outrageous amount of artists work in there. And it even, you know, I go back and look through there all the time and think, oh, wow, look at that one. I forgot all about that one, you know. So that's a that's a fun place to go. And Kaleido is another one. Kaleido is a website that reaches out to the four corners of the earth, basically. I mean, there's a lot of artists on there from other countries, so Ellen's kind of a fun one Reinert fine art in Charleston, South Carolina. And 33 contemporary through artsy. So basically, if you go on artsy and look up 33 contemporary, that's the outlet for the gallery. They have a location in Palm Beach that I'm going to be working with them to have physical artwork there. But right now, the artsy is the outlet for it so but again, go through my website and you can find out where these things are at any given time. Thank you. Oh, I just thought of something really exciting that I found out two things actually, Kaleido. Was instrumental in getting my work as one of the artists in the the latest headset that came out from Microsoft. You know what I'm talking. Yeah, so that the Kaleido app was one of the initial installed apps on that headset. And so when you went on the app, you could see my work with several other artists on there. Such a cool thing. I'm such a geek that I was so happy to hear this techie thing. And then I just found out yesterday that my work is included in the lunar Codex. I had no idea that I'm in several catalogs with 33 PA or poets and artists and basically, so I'm in this time capsule. So, yeah, basically, my work is part of the lunar Codex, which is a time capsule that is put on the moon. How cool is that?

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:01

So cool. Never

Heather Arenas: 1:08:02

thought in my, you know, childhood years of drawing, you know, people with little patches on their pockets, you know, this kind of stuff as a kid, that this is where I would be now, but I'm super excited about it.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:16

Yeah, oh, that's beautiful. That's so exciting. And

Heather Arenas: 1:08:20

who knows what it means, but it's just like, who, who knows what it means? It could mean anything. You know, it could be something in 1000 years. Somebody says, Look at that cool painting of the people standing in line at an airport.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:36

That's what humans were like back then, exactly. Oh, that's so cool.

Heather Arenas: 1:08:43

Anyway, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:08:45

well, thank you so much, Heather for all of your wonderful advice and for being a guest on the show.

Heather Arenas: 1:08:51

Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. Yeah, of course, you.