The BoldBrush Show

Nic Thurman - Philosophically Painting

BoldBrush Season 2 Episode 20

For this  episode, we sat down with Nic Thurman, a Kitsch painter who is very well known at this point on the BoldBrush page as having gone viral with his exquisite explanations on how to paint, how to do portraiture and how to do composition. On this episode we interview him all about his philosophy, we talk about how he teaches, his Patreon, as well as his really exciting upcoming workshop with a very great discount for BoldBrush listeners. And also, his amazing amount of content and he gives us some really great tips for people who are looking to grow their account in a very authentic way.

To get your discount for Nic's workshop:
Join the 'painting' level tier on Patreon and tell Nic you came from Boldbrush by October 4th to get the upcoming workshop ($300 value) for free!
https://www.Patreon.com/nicthurman

Follow Nic on Instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/nic.thurman

For Nic's site and more workshop info:
https://www.nicthurman.com/workshop

To join my newsletter:
https://www.nicthurman.com/newsletter

Nic's new high quality materials website (get his canvas and paints):
https://www.Kitschmeister.com

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Nic Thurman:

You have a certain philosophy, whether you know it consciously or whether it's just something that you're practicing implicitly. But the easiest way I think if you're going to try to identify your own philosophy is to look at what you admire. If you have a certain gold standard, a certain level that you're trying to achieve, then you can figure out more or less, what you're hoping for what you think is admirable. And you can start to examine those works and look at why are they making it? How does that make people feel? And you know, what's the ultimate purpose of those works?

Laura Arango Baier:

Welcome to the BoldBrush podcast where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango, Baier, and I'm your host. Recently, I sat down with Nick Thurman, a kitsch painter, who is very well known at this point on the BoldBrush page as having gone viral with his exquisite explanations on how to paint how to do portraiture, how to do composition. And on this episode, I'm interviewing him all about his philosophy, we talk about how he teaches his Patreon, as well as his really exciting upcoming workshop with a very great discount for BoldBrush listeners. So stick around to hear that, and also his amazing amount of content. And he gives us some really great tips for people who are looking to grow their account in a very authentic way. Hello, Nick, welcome to the BoldBrush podcast. How are you today?

Nic Thurman:

I'm doing really great. How

Laura Arango Baier:

about yourself? Really great. It's great to see you.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, likewise, I'm very happy to be here. So thanks for having me. Of course,

Laura Arango Baier:

I'm always happy to have someone on who has somehow taken over the BoldBrush page and has gone viral. I've like I've seen how your page has grown. And it's insane. So that's also why we have it here. But before we cover that I wanted you to please tell us a bit about your background and what you do.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, so I am actually a kitsch painter. And for those of you who don't know what that means, basically means I'm focused on storytelling in my paintings. So I consider the philosophy from the very beginning, I think about why I'm actually making the paintings. And my ultimate goal is to really compel the viewers emotionally through storytelling.

Laura Arango Baier:

So before you claim the title of kitsch painter, how did you get started in painting,

Nic Thurman:

I actually got very, very lucky. So when I was in high school, I had a really great mentors named Jeremy Coniglio. And he was actually my painting teacher in high school, basically, by total chance. One of my friends even is the one who told me to go to the art room in the first place, because he said, This guy, Jeremy is really awesome. You gotta go meet him. So I got interested in painting with him in high school. And I really enjoyed it because he gave me a lot of freedom. He let me basically work on projects as much as I wanted. And he let me do things kind of outside the curriculum in a way. So there's like a painting there that I was working on for a really long, I worked on it for six months, I think that was where I like first really fell in love with painting. And he actually became a huge inspiration for me. He was super interested in the old masters and Caravaggio when Rembrandt. And he also introduced me to Odd Nerdrum. So that's where the sort of kitchen fluence comes in, is that he introduced me to Odd Nerdrum, I was totally blown away by the paintings, of course, I started to wonder about the philosophy, he introduced some of that philosophy to me. And I was really confused, you know, as most people would be. But I saw in his paintings, that there must be something there, there must be some substance because his paintings are so great. So I decided to like follow up as much as possible. Jeremy even told me about the Nerdrum school. So then, as my sort of years developed there with him as my mentor, I decided I wanted to go to the Nerdrum school, I couldn't really find anything quite like that at the regular academies or anywhere else in the world, really. So I've completely fell in love with that craft. And with that philosophy, and the Nerdrum school is where I really was able to learn everything and figure out what kitsch painting is all about, and figure out some of these foundations for what Nerdrum is really doing.

Laura Arango Baier:

Do you mind sharing with us what kitch painting is all about? A little bit. Yeah.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, well, so all it at the very core. It's about storytelling. It's about impacting the viewer emotionally. So you want to tell universal truths, things that people can actually relate to. A lot of painting often gets into obscurity or it goes for kind of these vague Big general ideas, which, you know, maybe it's interesting in some degree just for the visual components. But kitchen is really about storytelling, it's about actually putting something there. Having those logical components that are going to allow us to understand the story, we need to have an actual plot, we need to have characters that are moving me to have a real story.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, and I think the other thing that I've noticed about pitch painting that I haven't really seen in other genres, because I mean, at this point, it's really a genre, a genre that does genre, literally. Is that it? It seems to be more timeless in a way like it tries to aim for. Yeah, beyond just the present moment. And like you said, it aims for the human experience rather than the day to day what whatever's going on.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, exactly. So that's one of the core foundations, I mean, part of that universality actually having something that's going to impact anyone, anywhere is also digital impact anyone from any time. Right, right. So you don't really consider the modern happenings or any any kind of things that are in the news or current politics, current events, things like that is not even be regarded. You can just disregard anything that's happening in current events. It's all about what people really care about in their very core.

Laura Arango Baier:

That's right. And in any case, like things in history tend to repeat themselves anyway. So like, whatever's happening now politically, probably already happened a couple times in the past anyway. Right. So, you know, it's nice to focus on the deeper reason for life and the deeper things that happen within us.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, you know, and the whole point of that timelessness is, like you just said, those deeper things within us, those are always going to repeat. So you may not have the same exact politics and 100 years from now, it may go in a completely different direction that you don't expect. But these sorts of human struggles where human emotions are always going to be with us, as long as we're human. Yes.

Laura Arango Baier:

And you could say that even touches on like Union archetypes, and all of these things that seem to repeat themselves, which I know, also loves to delve into the hero's journey type of universal thing as well.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, absolutely. And that's, I mean, you can observe that anywhere in society, like, even in your own friend groups, right? You have these sort of archetypes that reveal themselves, and everybody kind of falls into certain categories, more or less than you can kind of observe the same characters repeating themselves, throughout society and in your life.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah. Yeah. And it's, it's also really present in movies, like since you mentioned, you know, like, friend groups, like you always see that in the friend groups is like, the radical one, the depressed one, the happy one. The optimistic, you know, it's like the seven dwarves? Oh, yeah. Yeah. And you see, that's, like, totally different stories from different times. And they repeat themselves in different ways, but it's always the same archetypes, which is cool. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So would you say philosophy is really important to the creation of these images?

Nic Thurman:

Yeah. I mean, if you're going to make something that's really compelling, then it's the very foundation. In many ways, philosophy takes primacy. It comes before the image, you know, you have a certain philosophy, whether you know it consciously, or whether it's just something that you're practicing implicitly, is the real question. Like, you're always going to have that philosophy as the very foundation. That's your sort of guiding principle. And that's what's going to decide what you ultimately do what you make, while you're making the paintings that you're making everything like that. I guess. One of my favorite quotes, my favorite story, quote, in that regard, when it comes to considering your philosophy, is, I forget who it comes from. But it's basically, if you don't know what port you're sailing to, then no wind is favorable. So if you're out in the middle of the ocean, and you're sailing around, and you picture that as your life, if you have no goal, if you have no purpose, then it doesn't matter where the wind blows you or what you're doing. Even if you do something that could seem great in the moment. It doesn't matter if you don't have direction, because you don't actually know.

Laura Arango Baier:

That's very true. Yeah. And I think a lot of people they do a paint without being aware of that philosophy. And like you said, I think everyone has a philosophy that maybe they're not totally aware of, that they're practicing and they're putting into their work. And I think the more people understand their own philosophy and the way that they see the world through that philosophy, they'll See their work in a different way? You know, though, see for what it is? Yeah, yeah, exactly. I wonder why this and that it's like, I feel like the philosophy really takes away a lot of the mystery. You know, the creates a different type of mystery as well.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah. Right. And that. I mean, it's like you said that many people aren't very clear about that. So they don't really know whether they're doing better or worse than what they had hoped for. Because it's just a very vague idea. Having kind of put it in explicit terms. I think that's a very useful practice for anybody who's painting or making images where it's actually, you know, you're practicing any craft, if you're practicing any craft, it's a very useful practice to just think about that purpose. What is the goal? What are you trying to do?

Laura Arango Baier:

Right? Yeah. And how would you recommend someone, you know, starts to understand philosophy in the first place? You know, for a lot of people these days, they don't even know what the heck philosophy is. Let's just think about the ancient Greeks. Well, yeah, those guys, but they don't, you know, they're not very much exposed to it. Yeah. How would someone go about exposing themselves to philosophy in the first place?

Nic Thurman:

I think, just to point out what you kind of mentioned as the problem, I think it's a really common problem that people often view philosophy as this sort of mental masturbation, I don't know, I don't know if I'm allowed to say, you could say it. But it's like, you're just going out there. And you're trying to make yourself feel good by pretending like you know a lot to her by making really simple things very complex. But that wasn't actually the ancient Greek view. That wasn't the view of the stoics. That wasn't the view of Aristotle, what the stoics saw as your sort of ultimate goal with philosophy is to improve your life, these things should actually be practically you should be able to use it to make your life better. Or, in the case of craft, it should make your craft better, you should be happier with results, you should be improving your work. But the easiest way I think, if you're going to try to identify your own philosophy, is to look at what you admire. If you have certain gold standard, a certain level that you're trying to achieve, then you can figure out more or less what you're hoping for what you think, is admirable. And you can start to examine those works and look at why are they making it? How does that make people feel? And you know, what's the ultimate purpose of those works?

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, yeah. And I think what I like about that, too, is that it doesn't only apply to kitsch, it applies to any type of painting.

Nic Thurman:

Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's just something we've talked a lot about at the Nerdrum. School and myself and some colleagues there, we talked a lot about that. It's a little bit ironic. I mean, many of the sort of modern artists, although I know, classical painters, like have a tendency to dislike the modern artists, and it made me fair sometimes. But a lot of the modern artists would also be much better off, if they would look at the philosophy because they'll be able to practice their craft much better as well. But there's a, you know what, there's actually a quiz I made together, really, it was bork, Nerdrum. And other Nerdrum or Nerdrum. Sons, I think, I think mainly bork, Nerdrum. He made this quiz, I helped a little bit with it. But people can actually go if they're curious, they can go and they can take this quiz. So if you want to see where you end up in between the philosophers, we've kind of broken it down by the two main thinkers of Aristotle and Immanuel Kant. Oh, wow. So if anybody's curious,

Laura Arango Baier:

yeah, send me that link. And then I'll include it in the show notes. Because, um, yeah, like philosophy isn't. I mean, a lot of people misunderstand a lot, you know, the, a little bit of the classical perspective on things they think, oh, classical, that means you hate this is like no, a lot of you know, the, the realm of creation and painting and drawing. You know, it's, it's very much live and let live if you don't like something, don't involve yourself with it. Yeah. So that's what I like about philosophy to where it's like if you have a philosophy that goes towards like brutalist architecture. Awesome. That's Wow. And if you study that philosophy, it'll probably help you understand brutalism a lot better. But you know, for someone like you or like me, who prefers the classical and kitsch, definitely studying the ancient Greeks is a good path to go.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah. And it comes it comes down to what what do you want to get out of it? Right? How do you want to impact yourself and how do you want to impact the world?

Laura Arango Baier:

And then speaking of teaching, I saw on your page that you've have a Patreon.

Nic Thurman:

I absolutely do. Yes. Yeah. So

Laura Arango Baier:

tell us about how that happened and how it's going,

Nic Thurman:

you know, during its during the sort of COVID time As I came home from living with Odd Nerdrum, in his studio, I had been there for quite some time. And that was a fantastic environment, I love the community there being able to discuss and talk with other painters, and everything like that. So I think that was one of the main sort of inspirations for me is to maintain that level of contact to have people that I can discuss with work with, and really talk about painting and, you know, something to kind of give me an excuse to spend more time talking about painting and interacting with others and trying to learn more, you know? Yeah. So my long term vision, of course, is that I would like to create a similar sort of atmosphere to Nerdrum studio and have my own studio, where I can invite painters to come and live and work for free, and all you need to do is just be there and enjoy the whole process, make paintings, everything like that.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, and that's very enriching. Like my experience with Otto was also the same, it was very much like, Oh, my God, this is so amazing to be around so many other talented people in so many different minds who show you different perspectives on the same thing, and it really does, like, yeah, open, open up your brain. And then learning technique, you know, firsthand is so useful. But even even though it is useful to learn firsthand, I noticed that you do have a lot of videos to teach painting anyway.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, yeah, I do. So there's, I mean, in the catalogue of all my videos, I think it's over 90 videos now that are about painting. And it's, um, I'm rapidly adding to it. So I was growing, growing by the day.

Laura Arango Baier:

While there's a lot to eat,

Nic Thurman:

there really is there really is. So I've had I've had a great time with it. Really, I think it's been actually equally helpful for myself, I've learned a lot from going through the whole process, just like we talked about with the philosophy, if you're forced to actually explain something, and you need to show it to people in a way that they can understand. I mean, you have to actually put it out there explicitly. You can't just do something without thinking you need to have a real methodology or reason behind it. You know?

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah. And that's for any type of teaching. You have to understand that double as well, if you want to help explain it to someone in exactly.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, yeah. So I've really enjoyed it with that aspect. And I've also had a great time. I mean, just seeing my patrons being able to interact with them. The discussions are always fun, I always have some some of my patrons that want to talk about philosophy and want to play the devil's advocate, and we get into some really fun discussions. And then it's great. It's great to see people grow to, I found the very fulfilling to see my painters that are in there actually improving, and doing better and seeing the impact that it has on their work. There's one girl, one woman has been there, from the very beginning, she has been really great. She's come to so many of the events. And I've seen a huge transformation with her. And just by really sticking to having that perseverance, being able to take some advice and to try to improve. I've seen just massive improvements with her. She's gone on now to really make some masterpieces. No exaggeration.

Laura Arango Baier:

Oh, that's great. And you know that that kind of touches a little bit back on philosophy, because it's like, the more you understand the behind the scenes, you know, the deeper meaning of why you're doing things, it's easier to touch on that essence of the thing you're doing. Yeah, and then your message gets stronger, because now you know how to even put it out there. Right. And then reaching people with that message becomes even easier, which I think you've done with your page since it's grown so fast, and so massively.

Nic Thurman:

I've definitely stirred up a lot of discussions. And I've convinced a lot of painters and I still, to this day, there's videos that I put out over a year ago that I get people sending me messages about saying, Oh, this was so awesome. Like now I want to practice this philosophy and I know how to do it.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, yeah. And even if someone doesn't even agree with it, that's already a start for them to figure out hey, then if it's not that, then what is it? You know? Right.

Nic Thurman:

Right. And I think that's really interesting, again, just for the fact that it's, it's forcing you to actually give an answer. You're not allowed to just be complacent than to just go along, you know, with whatever is okay at the time. It forces you to actually come up with an answer and figure out for yourself of why you should even be doing this in the first place.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, yeah. And the other thing that a lot of people maybe are afraid of in terms of philosophy is they think that, oh, I believe in this one philosophy, so I'm stuck in it. You know, and I don't think it should be like that, you know, you can expand, and maybe your philosophy changes over time. Or maybe you add more to it. I don't I don't see it as something that's stagnant, you know?

Nic Thurman:

Yeah. Yeah. That's like, you know, Socrates would go around discussing with people in the city to try to, first of all, solidify his own arguments and make sure he has solid ground, like he's actually making a good argument. And then he would let people talk and talk through their own philosophy so that he could better convince them.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, because the more you understand where the philosophy lacks, the easier it is to improve it. And to have a I guess, like a more, like you said, more solid, perspective and more solid message. Exactly. Yeah. And of course, like we said earlier, you know, that's something that can be very personal to a lot of people. And oh, yeah, agree with other philosophies. And that's fine. What's fun is like having discussions with other people about it, and then maybe hearing them out like Socrates did. It's like, oh, hey, maybe I like to include that in my philosophy. Or maybe there's something about that, that makes sense with my philosophy, and I can, you know, marry them.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, yeah, exactly. No, and that's the whole idea. I mean, and that was the idea for him as well. It's like you should be improving and helping others to improve as well. Right? And how good is your philosophy? If you can't even talk about it? Or like, discuss it at all, if it can't hold any weight against criticism? If it can't hold any weight against a single question? How good is your philosophy?

Laura Arango Baier:

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Nic Thurman:

I guess the way I viewed it was a little bit like that. It's like, a more passive, like, they're not taking it so directly. It's more like an indirect philosophy, it's like, here's what you should do. And then you get all of the things attached to that. Was that your experience? Or?

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, um, and it also, you know, what my experience was also that each school had its, like, deep down the method itself would affect, you know, that philosophy of how the image would turn out. So if you look at paintings from like, Grand Central, they look totally different from the paintings from Florence Academy, despite them both being, you know, in a same realm of classical training and classical painting. There's just something, you know, totally different between the two. And it comes down to the method, and then also the philosophy of the understanding of light over form, and how the eye even works, which is kind of crazy. But then, I think that's like, it's hard to grasp that compared to actual philosophy, like what we were talking about, like Socrates and Aristotle and all of these guys who actually, you know, they had these ideas like, like Marcus Aurelius, some of his stoic quotes are, like, really freaking out. Because they're not just about, you know, they're not just about like, a certain moment. They're like about life in general. They're about like, you know, this is what's happening and this is how you can move past it in a positive way. And improve

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, yeah. Which is definitely one of the The most interesting to study because he was, I mean, wealthy beyond anybody could possibly imagine. But he was still very grounded in reality. And his. I mean, his goal with all those writings, his meditations, it wasn't about writing a book. That was what he later got translated into. And people took that, as, you know, something to learn from the study from Bruce actually, for his own personal growth, the whole point was just to improve himself, improve himself, and try to become a better person each day. Yeah. Which is really, that's, that's really fascinating to me, either he was, I mean that dedicated,

Laura Arango Baier:

we can just keep going and going with the philosophy.

Nic Thurman:

To tie this back to painting to tie this back to painting, there's one really big conclusion that I've come to when it comes to kitch painting. And that is that it can actually help people to improve their lives based on looking at it based on learning from it. Everything like that. So I think that's just really incredible power, that you have to do with your own work that many people don't realize. It's like a guidebook for your life. You know, as we talked about, with these universal truths, or these important moments in life, where you have these really fundamental core human problems, you get the opportunity to put it there, to show an example. And you can give people a life lesson really through the painting, you can show them, here's what you should do in this situation, and then they will have an emotional resonance with that. And then if that situation comes up in their own life, guess what they're going to think back to that painting, and now they've got a clear path to follow.

Laura Arango Baier:

Exactly. If, you know say that someone gets their philosophy in order, right? And they're ready to start painting. Yeah, where would they start?

Nic Thurman:

So there is a little bit of a battle, I think, between story and technique, or what should you be doing on a day to day basis? You know, so that's why for many people who go to the affiliates, it's, it's somewhat appropriate that they should be practicing portraits and figure drawing, things like that, you know, you can't conquer the world before you've even Ocker Joan house, so to speak, right. So I think it's great to start with the self portrait. That's what Nerdrum basically recommends, he thinks that's like, the most important place to learn from, it's very difficult. The face is the most complex thing you'll ever paint. So to get the face to actually look lifelike, to make it look good, to even try to improve upon your model like that. That's a huge challenge in itself. So I think if somebody's just starting out, that should be your first big goal is to paint a compelling self portrait and try to make yourself look even better.

Laura Arango Baier:

That's even harder.

Nic Thurman:

It's a big, it's a big task.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah. Or even, like, paint yourself in a way where you're expressing something, you know, whether it's like pain or sadness, or happiness, you know, because it might just look like a mug shot.

Nic Thurman:

That's true. That's a common problem. self portraits.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, when I when I work on a drawing, and I'm like, damn, this looks like a passport picture. Man, you know, the other thing that you know, I'm, I think you're very good at aside from explaining all these complicated things. You know, one of the things that I really love to watch from your your content is actually your composition, explanation videos, as they're always so fun for me.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, thank you, that's I've had a good time with those. I actually started to learn about that while I was at an ashram school. I had a colleague there, Jesse nickel, is the one who introduced the idea of the Golden armatures. To me, this weird light, the star, shaped the lines that go through the painting. So started to really go in depth and study that and try to find that in all of these great Renaissance and Baroque compositions, and I was able to find a lot of really important commonalities there, I think. So there's even more of those in depth on my Patreon.

Laura Arango Baier:

Now, in terms of how your account is grown, which, you know, since Instagram, is so in love with videos these days, I think that's, you know, that's one of the big ones you've hit and not just that you don't you don't just make videos you make like really good videos and you provide so much value for your followers and your listeners. So, do you have any tips that can help other artists and other kitsch painters to grow their accounts,

Nic Thurman:

well, I really, I really appreciate that. So thank you. Here's, here's, here's a little golden nugget, okay, this is my tip to everyone out there, if you have something that you really understand about your painting process, maybe you understand that makes your paintings unique or really elevates them to a higher level, you need to express that to your audience and to, you know, potential collectors, that's been something that has really set apart some of my paintings is just getting that opportunity to express my collectors, why these paintings are actually more valuable, you know, when it comes to the foundation, having good quality supplies, having a good oil, ground, good quality linen, and being able to tell them why that's actually, you know, setting it apart and pushing it to that higher level where they can rely on the painting for the long term. So if you have anything like that, whether it's the philosophy, it's your process, it's the materials, anything that you can really tell them that's going to elevate that painting, you need to express that to them. And actually, my biggest piece of advice, I think, would be to lose your ego, you need to quit thinking about yourself, and think about the people on the other side of the phone. Right? What do they want, what I've tried to think about and what has really worked, like the videos that did the very best, where I got millions of views or whatever, those videos, were always grounded in that little thought, it sounds very simple, it's very difficult to execute, you just have to think about what's going to get people to actually stop, you know, if they're scrolling along, what's going to get them to stop, and actually watch the video. And if they feel happy, or they feel some sort of emotion afterwards. Generally, you know, I want to make people feel either happy or feel like they just learned something that's kind of my goal. If you get them to feel something like that, and they watch it all the way through, then you've done a great job. So you can imagine, you know, a lot of the stuff out there. It's just not it's not doing that job of getting people interested or getting people to actually watch. Because it's too much about what you have ideas about for yourself for or something, something like that. So my advice is to lose your ego. Think about what's actually going to get somebody to stop and watch. Yeah, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier:

being authentic, because I think that's the other thing that I love about your videos is that you're very you like you don't, you're just like this is it, man. And this is what I'm going to teach you right now.

Nic Thurman:

That's fine. Don't hold back.

Laura Arango Baier:

No, you don't. Yeah. And that's, I think that's the other thing that makes your page very, very valuable to a lot of people, you know, you you teach them something, you're giving something in return for their time and their attention, which not a lot of people know how to do properly, like you said, you know, they think too much about oh, I'm just gonna tell them all of my unfiltered thoughts, you know, instead of, oh, this is how you compose a painting, or this is how you mix flesh? You know?

Nic Thurman:

That's very funny. Yeah. And I'm actually going to take a new strategy. So you may see the changes here. I don't know if I should say, but I'm gonna take in the slightly new strategy, because I've thought about this exactly what we're talking about right now. I think I can take it to another level and still lose the ego more so to speak.

Laura Arango Baier:

Spoken like a stoic. Exactly. Always keep proving. Yes. And then, in terms of selling your work, because you recently told me that you got a really awesome commission. Um, I'm sure that also came about thanks to your exposure and social media.

Nic Thurman:

It definitely did. definitely did. So yeah, I recently got a really awesome Commission. They wanted a complete storytelling composition, like a life's life's I talked them into getting it life size, because for both our sakes, it's just better to work with life size, I don't want to deal with something with little tiny heads, and they thought maybe it would be cheaper. If it's like a smaller size bathroom. Just forget about that. I want to make sure you get something really great. Let's focus on making it life size, because that's what's really compelling. But yeah, to speak about the sort of influence of social media. I've gotten so much more interest in my work. I've gotten way more sales. I've gotten this amazing commission and just many more people contacting me or buying work because of that sort of outreach from social media. And I think one of the really interesting points is that they actually enjoy watching the videos too, even though they're not painters. They like to watch some of the painting videos. So they find, you know, interested in just learning about the craft and learning more about what's going on kind of behind the scenes. I think that's really interesting that you can build have that connection with your collectors through Instagram, or through any any social media really?

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah. And it's also a way for them to see what you're even up to time. Because, yeah, one of the things that is actually highly recommended is, if you have new paintings, you should reach out to your collectors first, because they for sure would probably want to see it, at least, and then decide, hey, maybe we'll buy it. So, yeah, it's another great way to keep in contact and let them see what you're

Nic Thurman:

exactly. And then you feel more connected as well. I mean, it's nice, it's really nice to be able to interact with them. And sometimes, you know, my video shows up for them. And so they leave a comment or they message me and I get to send them a nice message back and it feels feels like we're more connected compared to just our usual exchange of letters or occasional messages or whatever.

Laura Arango Baier:

Yeah, it feels more like now, you know, like, it's like, I'm not gonna, like, I don't have to wait until the holidays. Yes, yeah, exactly. They can interact directly with me, which is nice. Yeah, that's so sweet. I love that. Um, so have you faced any challenges of when it comes to selling your work?

Nic Thurman:

I guess the, the main challenge that I sort of faced, especially when I was a bit younger, and before I focused on on the social media was just getting that outreach, you know, even though I was putting my paintings out on social media, or I was putting it on a website or something like that. I just wasn't reaching many people, I think is the is the main issue. So even if they may have been interested in those paintings, or they may have liked those paintings, I wasn't reaching anyone really? Yeah. So I think the social media has definitely been the biggest impact on selling and getting more collectors. But then it's also a matter of the ego, like we just like we talked about, you know, I was putting it out there with with hopes of selling the paintings. It's not like I was putting out paintings, because I hoped that it would make people's day better, because they would enjoy it or something like that. It's more like, looking at me, or like what I did, or something like that, you know, and I think that's a problem that a lot of people can probably relate to, like you put your paintings up on your website. Maybe you even promoted a little bit, and then nobody cares.

Laura Arango Baier:

I mean, how many more paintings are they even gonna see? On Instagram? It's like, you could just keep scrolling, there's less content? Yeah. Oh, man. That's a very good point. And you're right. If you do think, I mean, you create the work primarily for yourself, right? You You see an image. And you, you feel that it can resonate with people. But I feel like that comes after it's like, primarily, you do paint for yourself. And then it's like, okay, how does this provide value? You know,

Nic Thurman:

that's, I guess, a common strategy in a way, or what a lot of people end up doing, even if they're trying to approach universal stories is that they will first think about something that really resonates with them. And then of course, if it is something universal, and it will resonate with a lot of other people. And then it will, so when you put it out, people will also appreciate it. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier:

absolutely. And speaking of creating things that people will appreciate, do you mind telling me about your upcoming workshop,

Nic Thurman:

I'm so excited for this. So excited. I think this will be probably the best workshop I ever make. I think it's gonna be really great. So I'm so happy a lot of people have already joined and they're ready for it and been getting a lot of appreciation already. And the entire workshop is based off of Rembrandt and using Rembrandt as a gold standard to learn from. So we're looking at his greatest portraits, his greatest self portrait, we're looking super in depth at the techniques that he's using, and how to actually achieve those in your own work. So I focused on three key foundations, three things that I think are absolutely essential to getting these peak qualities that you find that Rembrandt's paintings, the things that really set him apart as one of the greatest portrait painters who will ever live. So those three foundations are the palette. So we're going super in depth looking at what Rembrandt's using, what colors he has in his painting, how you can mix those colors and get it in your palette and then actually put it into your own painting. And now we're gonna go into building layers, how to actually build up the world. again, create something substantial, you know, how do you get three dimensional depth? How do you make it feel like it's a real person in front of you. And then the final stage. And I'm so excited for I don't think anybody has talked about a lot of these ideas. They're in this final stage. It's what I call the magic, or I guess this is where the magic happens. So it's mainly focused on these really unique qualities like the glowing flesh, atmosphere, making it feel like it's actually there in alive, like, how do you create the vitality, and make it feel like a real person. So that's the final stage. And all of these things are basically what I think is the most important for setting apart Rembrandt, and things that I think people are going to be able to take and put into their own work. And I've demonstrated in that way, so we go super in depth, covering all these things, looking at his paintings, looking at what he's doing, I provide evidence, it's not like I'm just making up these techniques, you know, you can see what's going on in these paintings, and then I'm going to demonstrate it, so you can learn how to do it for yourself. And in total, it's going to be at least 15 videos, and about seven hours of content. But as time goes on, I think it's slowly increasing.

Laura Arango Baier:

Well, you know, it's like we said earlier, the more you note, the more you question, and then the more you want to share and the more

Nic Thurman:

Yeah, exactly like, so there's been already I mean, I went into this thinking, Yeah, this is going to be so awesome. Like, I've got these great ideas, here's some things that nobody's ever talked about, that I have been able to study. And then I learned even more while going through the process. So I think it's, it's really great. And I should add, everybody who is supported this workshop, you're gonna get lifetime access. So if I learn something else, if I if I figure out something else, I'm going to be slowly adding little little tidbits here and there, that I'm gonna throw in, if I figure out something else, or I learned something else, or I want to improve one of the videos, maybe, so you're gonna get lifetime access. And as I make those changes, you're gonna get all of them.

Laura Arango Baier:

That's a really great deal. And I believe we had mentioned before, that you will be sending me a link, and then I am exactly

Nic Thurman:

yes, I'll be sending you a link. And for your listeners, I because I really appreciate you having me on here. I think this is going to be a really valuable workshop as well. And I want to give people an opportunity to really get a steal here. So for your listeners only, if they mentioned BoldBrush, all you have to do is become a patron at the painting level tier, that's the important part, the painting level tier, send me a message, say that you came from BoldBrush You're gonna get the full workshop for free when you become a painting level patron. So that's, that's, that's a really great deal. The workshop is going to be $300 when it goes on sale, that painting level tier is just $30. And you're gonna get access to my entire video catalog for Patreon as well. So

Laura Arango Baier:

wow, you heard that guys jump on it. And I think it's the that only works within a week of this episode airing which I mean, countdown starts.

Nic Thurman:

Yeah. So as soon as you hear this, you have one week. That's that's the idea.

Laura Arango Baier:

You heard that guys, you have until October 4 To get this amazing deals literally like Jesus is a major. It's amazing. Yeah, so get on it, guys, I might actually do it.

Nic Thurman:

Well, then you can get your your favorite compositional structure study since well, there you go. I mean, it comes comes as a full package.

Laura Arango Baier:

It does. Yeah. Awesome. And then how can people find out more about your future Instagram, live sessions, workshops, new work,

Nic Thurman:

probably the best place is going to be on my Instagram. At Nick determine we're going to put that in the show notes. But that's going to be a good place. I try to keep up to date there. And I put some little things on my story from here to there. So check my story, that's usually going to have everything up to date. Otherwise, my newsletter is a great place. You can get free weekly live demos, every single weekend, I'm doing a free live demo. I'm not sending any junk mail or anything like that in time, I'm going to start adding some more resources as well. Like PDFs like you mentioned with the composition structure, I'm going to be sending out some PDFs related to things like that. So it's really just going to be a good resource for classical painters are people interested in classical painting. So you can join that at Nick thurman.com forward slash newsletter. And then you mentioned my Patreon. my Patreon is a great place if you want to get access to all my videos and get that workshop for a limited time. If you want to learn more about the workshop, you can also find that on my website. I have one more one more thing to mention one more thing to mention. I'm actually launching a painting supplies company because I've been sold I'm so tired of these companies in the United States that don't have high quality materials. The companies that do have high quality materials won't ship it to the United States or they won't ship it to Canada, North America, wherever, all these other countries. So if you're in the United States, and you're interested in very high quality materials, you can find that at quiche meister.com I've got high quality linen, high quality oil, ground prepared linen, and I'm gonna be quickly adding some new materials there.

Laura Arango Baier:

Wow. Oh my goodness. Well, we're gonna include that link as well in the show notes if anyone wants to get some of those high quality materials. And yeah, thank you so much. Thank

Nic Thurman:

you for having me. Had a great time.

Laura Arango Baier:

Of course. Yeah. Had a great time too.