64 Oliver Sin — You Only Have One Life, So Go Live It!

Oliver Sin: 0:00

Everything is in your hand. It's up to you to pursue your artistic dream, and, you know, make your life more meaningful or memorable for you. You know that is the most important part. Because after all, is your own life.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:16

Welcome to the BoldBrush show, where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Arango, Baier and I'm your host. For those of you who are new to the podcast, we are a podcast covers art marketing techniques, and all sorts of business tips specifically, to help artists learn to better sell their work. We interview artists at all stages of their careers as well as others who are in career careers tied to the art world in order to hear their advice and insights. For today's episode, we sat down with Oliver sin, an artist who specializes in gorgeous expressive portraits and vine charcoal, Oliver tells us all about how he became an artist. The importance of having mentors, even if you're at the top of your mountain. Why remaining humble is the key to continue growing, how crucial it is to communicate with others. And he emphasizes that you only live one life. So go out there and chase your wildest dreams. Finally, he tells us all about why he enjoys teaching, and all of his incredible upcoming 2024 workshops. Check out the show notes to sign up before all the spots are taken. Well welcome, Oliver to the BoldBrush show. How are you today? I'm

Oliver Sin: 1:22

doing well. Thank you, Laura for having me. Hi, guys. This is Oliver Sin.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:28

Yes, thank you so so much. You are so sweet. And I'm so happy to have you on the podcast because of course I have heard great things about you. And I have of course seen your stunning work. So I'm really happy. Yes, you're welcome. I'm really happy to be able to talk to you about it. Yeah. Um, so I wanted you to please tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do.

Oliver Sin: 1:51

Hi, Guys, I'm Oliver sin. I was born and raised in Hong Kong, and I finished my high school in Toronto, Canada. And after I finished high school, my family moved to San Francisco, California. And after four years at education, I graduated from Academy of Art University. So I have been living in San Francisco, California way after the big earthquake 1989. So I can call San Francisco my home because I've been living here more than 30 something years. So I graduated from Academy of Art University major in illustration. And after I graduated from Academy of Art University in San Francisco, then I worked for George Lucas for almost a three and half years, less than four years. So I worked at as a concept artist for Star Wars Episode One. And before I worked on the Star Wars Episode One I worked at as an animator for Curse of Monkey Island and background painter and Photoshop painter, and for Curse of Monkey Island. So that three and a half years experience for George Lucas actually opened my eyes. And then I, you know, worked at in Hong Kong as the art director after George Lucas experience. So that lasts for like six months. And I have been teaching at Academy of Arts University since 2001. So I have what what year, we're like, I have more than 22 years professional teaching experience at Academy of Art University in San Francisco, I have been drawing since I was a little kid, I would say maybe like age three. So I like to draw since I was a little kid I don't even know that I can able to make a living as an artist. So it just like drawing is you know, sketching or being artists is my it's in my blood. I mean I didn't I didn't try to become an artist I think is in my blood is very, very natural for me to go to art school. And then after I graduate I was lucky enough to make a living as an artist so I'm very very lucky and grateful that I can able to continue to become a professional artists with my artistic skills. So that is my how I started you know, I you know how I started as an artist is very, very natural. So I didn't pick odds, I can able to tell you I turned 50 And I can tell you this art find me identifying art, it just is very, very natural. And you know life is short and then I finally find my mission in my in my late 40s I think sharing my knowledge in art is my mission. You know everybody have a mission in their life. And I am so lucky and grateful to find my colleagues extremely younger age like in age three to five. And then you know now I travel more travel around the world and teach a lot of International workshops, to share my knowledge and invite other people I think I find is wherever we want it. Sharing is, is great, especially, you know, sharing the knowledge in art, you know, with other people and actually, the student that I met at the workshops at the school, they inspire me more than, you know, they opened my eyes to see something that I don't know, I think they're more I might inspiration, you know, that was just my job to teach them, you know, what I know as an artist, but actually, I have to thank my students, they are my greatest inspiration instead. So, you know, I'm over being more grateful for, for this opportunity. And I, it took me a long time to finally understand, sharing the knowledge in art is actually my mission. And I kind of enjoyed it, you know, being an artist, you know, Laura, you and your, your amazing artists, yourself as well. And everyday I go to work, and I don't have any pressure at all i, I enjoy, go to work. And this is a very, very rewarding job for me. So I'm very, very grateful and lucky. And an honest my to share my story with, you know, your audience here. So, thank you for having me. Oh,

Laura Arango Baier: 6:21

thank you, and thank you for so for being so. So kind. I, I'm also grateful to have you here and to be able to communicate with you and you know, find out that we have so many friends in common because we were discussing that just before because it's such a small world. So it it really feels its first feeling more like I guess like a bit more of a cozy sort of way of communicating. And then also you know that you learn something and you pass it on. And then we all learn something and we pass it on to each other, you know, things to those, you know, networks that we we've built as realist painters and artists, which is, it's so great. I mean, every, every guest I've had, I'm so grateful to learn something from them. And I'm and that's one of the reasons I'm really happy to have you on too, because I love interviewing teachers and who are also amazing artists, you know, buy their own rights and love teaching, I mean, that, that shows to me that you value what you do so much that you want other people to basically reach the level of their dreams, right? Because a lot of us we start studying, yeah, we start studying. Because we want to be really, really good at it so that we can express the images that we see in the images that we you know, we have in our heads. So I love seeing an artist who isn't afraid to say I'm going to pull you know people up to my level to help them to show them that, you know, this is a career that can, you know, be fruitful. A lot of people think that it isn't, but it really really is. So thank you

Oliver Sin: 7:59

for saying that, because I think I learn how to teach from learning, you know, learning I have mentors. I have Xiao Ming Wu, the and Henry Yan the world known legendary master painters, Xiao Ming Wu Henry Yan, they created all of a sudden, and I haven't studied with them for more than 15 years, you know, they were my coworker at Academy bot University. So you know how it started 15 years, mentorship with them, you know, I study with them every day, and every week for the past 15 years. So they taught next to me next classroom. And then one day I walked by and say, hey, Sal, me and Henry. So anyway, that's how I started and I say, can I come by watch a demo. And then that's how I start my mentorship and my friendship with the, with the masters. So I didn't go to school to become a professional teacher, but I went to school to become a professional artists. And then, you know, I got worked for George Lucas. And then I returned to my school, and to become a teacher, but I didn't go to school to become a teacher. And they just like, the knowledge of art and my experience can able to qualify me as a teacher. I keep telling my students without my prior experience, work experience, I cannot able to teach. I'm a teacher because I have 22 years professional teaching experience, plus my work experience and my artistic ability. So without that 22 professional teaching experience that might be difficult to teach. I'm a teacher, I'm teaching based on my experience. So you know, students always ask me, How can I become a teacher? I don't know. You need to good at your content, your your subject, you know, my subject is art. So you have to With an art first, and then one day, and people will ask you, because I just happen out of the blue someone asked me, Oliver, would you like to come back to our school and, you know, Academy fight and teach. And I didn't know, I didn't know I have the ability to become a teacher. So I remember the first first day teaching, I memorized my six hours lecture that was so intense, memorize the step by step six hours nonstop. I can imagine how how bad the demo was, but it was because I was so overwhelmed. And then it's like, okay, I have to well prepare. So I have, I spent a couple of weeks to memorize those six hours lecture. Of course, I wrote down in paper first, but I memorize it. But now I don't have to pay I don't have to, you know, prepare. Teaching seems easier. Now, after 22 years professional experience. And I learned how to teach a workshop I learned how to teach by watching my teachers, because I'm an artist. I'm a I'm a visual learner. You know, I learned by watching. So that's why I still go to the workshop I still attending Salming Warhammer Yes, workshop, I travel around to study with them, because they no longer teach for Academy of Art University. You know, during the pandemic, after the pandemic, it changed a lot of like, you know, artists, you know, gain. So they could they, you know, they, they decide to retire, so, but they do teach workshop worldwide. So I travel, I travel around the world to study with my mentors, you know, whenever I could, wherever I could, you know, so they usually teach it in America. So, and I'm so lucky and grateful in my life, I have those two masterful mentors, because they are willing to share them not afraid that Oh, Oliver, don't steal everything from from me. No, I cannot. I mean, I can't I mean, I, they have very, very open mind this masterful artists, and they are willing to share, and I enjoy spending my time with them. I agree, I'm very grateful that I met them, you know, for the past 15 years, that mentorship actually helped me to add away my soul as an artist. So I'm very, very grateful that I have a mentor, I believe that, you know, as an artist, you need to hang out with other, you know, same similar minded, you know, people, so I like to hang out with artists, because, you know, I like to share my frustration with other people. Because artists, we have an interesting personality, you know, I especially me, I know, I do, I don't know about you, but you know, I have an interesting personality sometime, you know, I call myself I have a cool personality as an artist. So, but I do enjoy spending time, and, you know, talking with other artists, because they actually inspire me, you know, they open my eyes to see something that I don't know. And at the same time, my story, my, my, what I've been full, you know, how I deal with things that actually inspire them as well. So I believe that communication is the key when I was a student, you know, of course, when I first moved to America, and I always thought, free that oh, the barrier in language, people would laugh at my accent and things like that. But I turned 50 I don't care about other people's opinion. I care about my interaction with other people. You know, I think that the secret of being successful artists is being humble. My mentors Domingo and Henry and they taught me that way. You know, they are masterful artists, and they are they still remain extremely, extremely humble. They taught me they have been teaching me everything that they know, they are not selfish artists, they are willing to share their knowledge and art with me. And of course, you know, I have to respect them. I, you know, I, to me, that a god to me, you know, I got the God to me, I value their opinion. So I'm just carry that legacy. To my students. I learn how to teach by watching my mentors demo, how did they arrange you know, the structure or the structure of the class the structure of the workshop? So every day I learned something new. So I'm so lucky that I have 15 years mentorship with them, and you know, pandemic changed a lot of life people skiing. So I hope that I will have more opportunities study with my mentor, you know, that is my, my objective in My life as an artist, you know, I can able to make money. So here's my theory. I'm not drinking coffee, here's my coffee. So it's almost empty. The coffee inside my coffee cup is for my students. I have to we feel the coffee. Yeah, who can we feel the coffee for me, my mentors, Xiao Ming Woo. And we, they will help me to refill my coffee. What's inside my coffee cup is for my students. So I know one day, this is going to be empty. But my mentor, they helped me to refill my coffee inside my coffee cup. That is my theory. So I believe that my mentor, I mean, can able to help me to add away my soul as an artist. And they helped me every, you know, every day to become a better artist and better artists. And as I said, the secret of success is being humble. And they taught me Oliver. Once you achieve on top of once you gain some achievement, you're on top of mountain number one. Mountain number one is actually the bottom of mountain number two. That is a very, very fascinating to hear their opinion in life. So that is the secret of success. Being humble, no matter, you are not on top of any mountain. top of the mountain number two is actually the bottom of mountain number three. So that's more and more mountains ahead of you. So so be be prepared, be empty, remain humble. I think, you know, we remain humble. And it's okay to be hungry for more art. Because being an artist, I think is it is a very, very good job. You there's always room for improvement. And there's so many inspiration out there. I just have traveled to Boston to see John Singer Sargent exhibition, amazing experience. So I gave myself, you know, a Christmas gift, you know, by going to Boston, four days, actually five days, four nights. So guess what, four days, five days, four nights. I stay at a museum. No sightseeing, you know, Boston, that was my first time I went to the MFA to see John Singer Sargent twice. And then I also went to the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum one time. And then I also went to the Boston Public Library to see the chancing sergeants murals twice. So that was a very, very rewarding experience. I often encouraged the students go to the museum often, and then get inspired. Because most of my students, they say, Oh, I've been practicing, I've been practicing at home. But once a while, we deserve to go to the museum and get inspired. You cannot you know, I tell I keep telling my students that you cannot just stay at home for you know, for the 20 477 days a week just continue joy without having any interaction with other people or inspiration. They have to go to, you know, I I can only recommend a student. I like to go to museum I like to go to the bookstore. I like to get inspired. I like to get inspired by other people like talking to you hearing your story. To me. It's an inspiration. So I think art you need interaction with other people, you know, having inspiration from the museum, so highly recommend any of you watching this podcast, if it's not too late, go and see John Singer Sargent in Boston MFA. I think the exhibition finished in January 15 2024 is one of the best John Singer Sargent exhibition, you can able to see more than 55 to 50 paintings by John Singer Sargent pastor garments that Johnston massage and use for those painting. It was the best of the best Johnson massages. I'm a huge fan of John Singer Sargent and I've seen Johnson massage in more than six exhibition. But however I believe in my opinion, that one in Boston MFA is the one of the best John Singer Sargent exhibition ever. Wow. So go to museum often and get inspired. If you want to become a serious artist. I think that is you know, something that that is no substitute. You know from going to the museum you of course you can able to get inspired by the social media, YouTube, but sometimes you there's no substitute to go into the museum, Real News. Same for the wheel experience.

Laura Arango Baier: 20:02

Absolutely. Yes, that is a very, very great point to make. Because there's something about, you know, you see the painting and your tiny little phone screen, right. But there's like, there's also that extreme amazement when you're in front of the real thing. Like, for example, that's how I felt when I went to the mat. And I saw, I saw the Joan of Arc painting. Massive, I didn't know it was that big. Yeah. To see the individual brushstrokes and to see like, just to imagine this man probably standing on a scaffold, right, trying to paint this. It's mind blowing, and it's inspiring, because it makes me want to make a painting that's that size, you know, just just to, you know, imagine, wow, like, this painting, like, oh, it breathes, right? It's much different. When you see it on a tiny little phone screen. Not obviously, not everyone has the opportunity to go see these paintings in person, but if they can, oh, my gosh, please go out there, do it. I'm totally with you on that. We

Oliver Sin: 21:03

have to make time and effort to create that memory. Because, you know, you don't know what you don't know. I didn't know that Oh, Force Academy of Arts, it is so amazing. They, you know, they invited me to teach their way before the pandemic. So I have been living in America, you know, comfortable live, and all sudden travel all the way to Florence, Italy, first time to teach the Russian Academy of Art for an entire month. And then I didn't know I was, I was hesitated to accept the offer. And then I went to Xiao Ming Wu, and as zooming, should I, you know, I'm not trying to, you know, show off or anything. And so being told me, Oliver, you're single, you don't have burden. If I were you, I would take that offer and enjoy your one month teaching experience in Florence. Italy. So, you know, he gave me that statement. And they told me like five seconds and respond that email and then accept that offer. I got there you you use you study in Angel, you live there in forests Academy, in forest, Italy, you know, I, the night I arrived, and they're just like, my eyes are wide open, my mouth is wide open. And I just I oh my goodness, I am so happy that I would they're in Florence, Italy, to witness the architecture to inspire. And that is, you know, you and I speak the same language. And because you and I've been there. And if you you know, if you're watching this podcast, if you want to become a professional artist or a serious artist, you have to go to your fours. You have to go to Italy and get inspired. Of course, it costs you money, it cost you time. But this experience is forgivable and forget about them suicide and forgettable. And that's something that you have to gain that experience. Because you don't know, I didn't know. I was so naive to, to to overfitting, like couple months to accept their offer. But if I asked you, Laura, you know, should I go to the forums and study there? And everybody say, hell yes, definitely, you won't work well. So sometimes you don't know what you don't know. And then communication is the key. Talk to other people ask for their advice, you know, someone that you know, your mentor, or people who study there before and ask for their opinion. You know, everybody have amazing, you know, every artists that I know, they traveled to Italy, you know, they went to Florence, they went to Rome. Everybody have an amazing, amazing experience. Because if it's for us, or Rome, Italy, they don't inspire you. I don't know where else they can inspire you, you know, that wherever. I think that is an inspiration. You know, a lot of my students, they say, Oh, they they being so passive. They just wait and say, Oh, I hope my teacher will show me this. My teacher will teach me something like this. Sometimes, you know, I turned 50 This is my artistic journey. And I don't rely on anybody to help me. And I am the one that going to create that memory for myself as an artist, because this is my life. I don't need to rely on my teacher to hold my hands and let's go to forums together. Let's go to do this together. No, who are they? Who am I to them? I'm nobody, but this is my artistic journey. And I know what is good for me. If I know what is good for me and that time, the one that going to get those memory, and I'm going to create those memories for myself. So, but I believe that communication is the key. And I know that nowadays, most of my students, they, they are nagging that communication skills, because, you know, during the pandemic, we, we don't know how to communicate with other people. And then now we have a social media, you know, sometimes we just like to tax people, and I often encourage my students don't tax me. Talk to me, you know, come meet me in the zoom, you know, I don't text my mentors. I like the wheel interaction with them in person of Husum. You know, I, I like to read books. But you know, I am an old fashioned, I'm old fashioned, I like to buy books, I like to read books, I, you know, I like to have a real conversation with him, real people will human being through zoom or in person, I think communication is the key. I think, you know, we all need to learn how to communicate with others, even though it's not easy. You know, life is liable for lawless surprises you, you know, you don't know what you're capable of, until you try it. You try it one time, you, you know, you, you you gain successful we so that was just a beginner's luck, and you fail the first time, you know, that doesn't mean it's not working, but you need to continue trying. And of course, it takes a lot of like, you know, trial and error, but I think, enjoy your art journey. So don't worry, but don't do not just worry about a one good drawing of one bad drawing, just try to treasure your overall experience, I think the good we sell will be just a bonus, you know, you have a good drawing of the, at the end of the day, good for you, good for you. So, you know, keep climbing, you know, you're on the top of mountain number one, it actually the bottom of the mountain number two. So that is my philosophy, especially, you know, the half of the coffee feel is almost empty. I think I'm grateful that I have my mentor, something went heavy, and to refill my coffee for me. So I'm very grateful. And so that is something that I, I inspire my students, I hope that I believe that a will educator can teach you, to inspire you, to motivate you. So that is something that is my objective. Being an educator, of course, I can do demo, and I can able to inspire other people motivate other people. And they told me a long time to find that, that might be my, my mission in my life, you know, my, you know, everybody have a mission in their life. So I'm so lucky that at this point, at this stage, I find that mission, so and I would like to use my resources to embrace my, why am I here on Earth. So I think everybody serve a purpose, why we are here. So you know, sometimes we have to, we have to do something, do the research for ourself. Because after all, this is my life. And this is also your life as well. So you'll go outside and find the purpose of your life for yourself. So don't waste your beautiful life because we all we all live once. So embrace it, if you could, yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 28:37

totally. Up BoldBrush reinspire artists to inspire the world because creating art creates magic, and the world is currently in desperate need of magic. BoldBrush provides artists with free art marketing, creativity, and business ideas and information. This show is an example. We also offer written resources, articles and a free monthly art contest open to all visual artists. We believe that fortune favors the bold brush. And if you believe that to sign up completely free at BoldBrush show.com. That's bol DBRUSH show.com. The BoldBrush Show is sponsored by FASO. Now more than ever, it's crucial to have a website when you're an artist, especially if you want to be a professional in your career. Thankfully, with our special link faso.com forward slash podcast, you can make that come true and also get over 50% off your first year on your artists website. Yes, that's basically the price of 12 lattes in one year, which I think is a really great deal considering that you get sleek and beautiful website templates that are also mobile friendly e commerce print on demand in certain countries, as well as access to our marketing center that has our brand new art marketing calendar. And the art marketing calendar is something that you won't get with our competitor. The art marketing calendar gives you day by day step by step guides on what you should be doing today right now in order to get your artwork out there and seen by the right eyes so that you can make more sales this year. So if you want to change your life and actually meet your sales goal this year, then start now by going to our special link faso.com forward slash podcast. That's s a s o.com. Forward slash podcast. Yeah, I mean, you you have, like we were talking about to a little bit earlier, we have a limited time, you know, so it's like, if, if you're gonna sit around and wait for someone to tell you, Hey, go do this, go do that. You're gonna, you're gonna stay where you are forever. I mean, like you said, you're, you live your life, and you decide, hey, this is what I want, and just go for it. Right? So I hope your students figure out that, you know, they have to get up and go do it and figure it out. But speaking of I do want to know, what what tip Do you give your students in terms of finding their artistic voice?

Oliver Sin: 30:56

That is a very, very good question, Laura, finding your own voice. So I guess when I was a student, I didn't know that I have a I had a voice. Because, you know, I went to school, four years experience. When I was a student, I'm always quiet. I, I listen to my teacher. And I like people to tell me what to do. You know, that is my, that, that is my personality. You know, not everybody, not every student have that personality. So, you know, I, I finished high school in Toronto, Canada, moved to San Francisco. And then I, you know, have four years experience at Academy of Art University. And, to be honest, I was a teacher's pet, I listened to my teacher, because I was a student, you know, I was a student, I just don't know, just tell me everything, just show me the step by step. And then I will do everything. So of course, you know, of course, it's not successful, and we so but I still would try it again. And again, and again. And again. And again. And again. So the tips for the student, you know, for your attorney, I graduated as an illustrator. And I wanted to do a children's book. So I have an interview of of a hallmarks at that time. But you know, nowadays for marks, you know, we don't buy greeting card. So when I was a student, I like to do everything traditional, I like to, you know, like Christmas, I like to draw a greeting card to send it to my friends. So I'm an old fashioned, traditional artists, I wanted to do a children's book illustration, you know, greeting card, you know. And but I ended up working for George Lucas, I find my first voice was an illustrator, you know, do children's book or greeting card. That was my goal, when I was a student, because I graduated illustration. And then my teacher, you know, graduated from there, and then they they're into greeting card, watercolor, things like that. So I thought that was, that might be my first voice, but wasn't successful. And then I worked for George Lucas. And then I, then I end up being an animator doing traditional animation. So after I get, you know, after four years, three and a half years with George Lucas experience, so I make a voice as a concept artist, illustrator. And then after I, I quit, and people keep saying that, Oh, 2d animation, traditional art is dying. No one care. You know, everything is digital. And nowadays, we heard about AI, everything is digital, digital. Ai, no one gives a shit. No one cared, excuse me. No one cared about art. And I don't believe that, you know, because I believe in traditional art, I believe in my artistic skills. And, of course, I can be honest with you. At some point, I betrayed myself. And then I turned down traditional art. It is so easy for me. I have said that before, to say no to artists that I'm done. I have enough of art. I will I don't want to do this anymore. It is so easy to say I give up. I gave up a little bit. You know for like couple months, six months, you try something else. Because Oh, I thought I'm going to be a children's book illustrator. Oh, I thought I'm going to be a concept artist. But I couldn't able to find a job. You know, I tried to look for a job as an illustrator. No one buy children's books anymore. No one you know no one hire 2d animator anymore because everything is digital. 2d animation is dying. No one cared about 2d art. So you know you heard a lot of like, I want to say this rumor. You heard a lot, you know, people saying that, Oh, they discourage you to do traditional art, they keep encouraging you, oh, do digital art easier Photoshop painting easier, you know, you know, they keep forcing you to do the shortcut. You know do that nowadays we have AI. But how do you make the voice? How do you find your own voice, you find your own voice based on a different time era. Right now, I'm making a bigger louder voice as a portrait artists using Vine, charcoal. But I didn't have this voice. When I was a student, I didn't know, I'm good at doing faces. I'm good at Vine, charcoal. But as a student, that four years program actually opened my eyes to try everything. So deep down inside, I have a couple ability to do a lot of things. I want to say everything. Of course, I have my own preference, you know, I have my own preference. So you will find your voice while you're searching for it. So you don't know that, oh, this is going to be your voice. So imagine, like maybe like 10 years later, we will have an interior like this. I don't do poetry in mine charcoal anymore. I will do something else. I might do abstract I might do. You know, I might paint flowers, I might paint something else I might do something else. Who knows? I think life is full of a lot of surprise. surprises. I think in order to go find your own voice. I think it'd require your own responsibility, your own action. And I didn't know. But I know that I am capable of, you know, doing a lot of things. But at this point, 2023 or, you know, now I'm just offering myself as a vine charcoal portrait artists. So this is one of the voice voices. And then maybe like next year I try something else. I will do abstract, I will do plein air, I will do you know tattoo, or tattoo being a tattoo artist or something else? Who knows. So, you know, so I believe in myself. And I believe that I have a lot of things to offer of however, that is required a lot of like, ability. And those ability is based on the artists. If you really, really want something, then you have to go and chase for your artistic dreams. So did I answer your question?

Laura Arango Baier: 37:39

Yeah, I'd say you did. I mean, you make a great point, it's like you, you won't find your voice, you know, unless you really experiment, right? There's like that phase when you're students and you're trying everything out, and you're messing around and playing around. And I would say I have very similar experience in that way. With my own, you know, searching, where, you know, a lot of it has been traveling, and a lot of it has been, you know, questioning, why do I like this and trying to find painters that I like and asking myself, why do I like this? Not that? And how, how can I add this into my world? Right? How or what, you know, what little clue does this painting have, in terms of my own experience, and in terms of the things that I want to express? And it takes a lot of, you know, independent, searching, independent investigation, and it's so so much of it is and I was talking to a recent guest about this, so much of it is, you know, searching through your identity, like, what is this? And why is it important? To me specifically, right? So it's, yeah, you make a great point. And then, you know, one of the other questions that a lot of people ask, especially when they're artists, and they want to be artists is, you know, how do you make money? Right? So I wanted to ask you, what are some ways that you have supplemented your income as an artist? You know, is it you know, a day job is it you know, workshops is a bit like, because there are artists who, you know, they they tend to either have a day job for a bit while the paint on the side until their paintings make more than their day job. What has been your experience?

Oliver Sin: 39:24

I've learned from my teachers from the workshop. So we all artists, we all need extra income. We all need to learn how to sell our artwork, promote our artwork, and I find that I have been using social media, I think more than eight years, seven years in the beginning of the Instagram and of course, I was embarrassed. So I asked my TA I asked her Can you show me how to use the Instagram? I was embarrassed. You know, I is not easy. You know, I'm not into technology. I'm sure you heard that all the time. So and then I asked her, can you show me how to use the social media? So anyway, and that she showed me how to use social media, and I know how to use her social media well, and I know how to do not let the social media to use me. Because before the social media, you know, introduced to, to this Well, I was a garage artist. So I was a struggle, artists that no one's knows about me, no one wants to buy my artwork, I would like to tell your audience, thank you for social media. Without a social media, I won't have an opportunity here to be interviewed by you, Laura. And I think that social media open all of us up to the whole well, and I've you can able to sell artwork on social media, but my strategy is, I'm not trying to show I'm very desperate. So I am lucky that I'm a very, very passionate artist. I don't have to worry about selling my artwork. But of course, I had, you know, I had, then I I've learned how to sell my artwork at the workshop by attending my teachers workshop, because I don't know, I didn't know I can able to sell demo, sell joy at the workshop. You know, it's a reasonable price. So that is a one way. If I did that attend my teachers workshop, then I don't know I, I thought that Oh, workshop you can sell original artwork is extremely reasonable price to your students. Yes. So every time I teach a workshop, I will bring, you know, like 10 to 12 original artwork, to show the students who are attending the workshop. And then they if they're interested, they can buy in a reasonable price. But that's something that you learn by attending the workshop knowing that they teach you, you can go to Google, like how to become a successful artists. You know, it's there's no, you know, perfect answer. There's no model answer. So you need to learn, and, you know, use social media, I find out that people will approach me with social media and asked me, like, oh, is this artwork available for sale, you know, they will contact me, but I don't usually like to put a price there because I'm not, you know, I'm not, I'm lucky enough. You know, I'm not a desperately to need to sell my artwork at this moment. But I was a garage artists garage artists, that means, you know, I stay in a garage, no one knows all of her saying no one cares about my artwork. However, thank you for Instagram, social media, it open myself up to the world and people knows about me. And so Time Magazine, find me from social media. So they offered me and I did to Time Magazine cover for them. Again, they find me through social media. That's the fact. And the book, I also have the book behind me way here, the book edited by me for social media, and also have my DVD. All those opportunity came from social media. So and I think you need to first of all, allow yourself, open up yourself, open yourself and let the world knows who you are, and see what you can offer. And of course, you know, you can able to, I think the communication, have a network has an art committee, I think this is very, very, is very, very important for any of the artists to have, you know, hanging out with the artists spend half an odd commodity. And communication is the key. If you're going to lock yourself in the garage, no one's going to lock in your garage door and say, Oh, that'd be helped, you know, this is your job. You need to go out. And I heard that all the time. But that is not my personality. Oliver. I am very, very, very shy. But sometimes you have to ask yourself, yes, we all have that shyness. We all shine personality. But if you want something you need to go out. You need to show people that I'm very hungry. I need to sell this artwork. Go to the museum, you know, go to you know go to places and go to the bookstore. And you have absolutely no idea how many times I got people to ask me oh, you know, I like to sketch at the coffee shop and people see idea that some simple sketch they will come by and say noon artist. Yes. How can I help you? Yes, I'm an artist. You know, after the simple talk, they will ask you Oh, Okay, John, my granddaughter, you know, here's the picture, I think, you know, that's how you you explode yourself out there at a coffee shop or at a museum, you have to do a little sketch, talk line artists at line artists, and you have absolutely no idea. You know, your, your, your action, you know, you're doing a doodle sketch in front of John Singer Sargent painting at the Boston MFA. And then someone is actually, you know, it happens to me, people are poachy, like, Are you an artist, I'm looking for an artist who do a portrait for my grandpa, grandma, grandpa. And that helps, you know, I say show up, this is my business card, always have the business card ready. And promo and portray an image of yourself to the audience, you and artists. So, of course, you can able to negotiate the price with them, I think this is the artists responsibility to go out. And, you know, to promote yourself, to promote yourself, we need to take your first step, leave your studio, go outside, you know, and promote yourself, go to the coffee shop and do a little doodle joy. And, you know, all those opportunity and expectedly will come to your way. And some you know, it works for me. And it's easier for me to say, but I've been there, I was a garage artist, no one, no one come in not wanting to know me. But now, I look back and say that was my responsibility. And that was my job to go out and promote myself. Don't wait for anybody, any assistant to help you. This is my artistic journey. And this is up to me to promote myself. And, you know, I think that is my, I think that is my little tips for my students. Because they in it, it happens all the time, the student, they like to lock themselves at home, you know, at the studio, and then they say, Oh, I've been practicing, I've been practicing. Yes, you're practicing your drawing skill. However, we all need to improve on our communication skills as well. So, you know, go to the museum more often. And, you know, go outside and talk to other artists, you know, have a little bit of the art committee, I think they were able to help you, I like to hang out with artists, I like to, you know, I, I think I mostly like to hang out with the masterful artists, someone who's older than me, because I like, I think I could able to learn a lot of things from them. You know, especially, because most of my students, they're younger than me, I am just using my mentors experience at their story. And that I can, you know, just use, I'm just a messenger, I learned from them. And then I can just as a messenger, I just share my knowledge and what I learned from my mentors, to my students. So I think it's a win win situation. So I, I enjoy sharing my knowledge and art with other people I enjoy real communication with, with other people, I think, nowadays is wherever difficult because, you know, we, we know is we, especially most of my student, they have a hardest time to communicate with other people because, you know, they know how to text, but they just don't know how to have a real interaction with others. Wow,

Laura Arango Baier: 48:37

that's very true. It you know, I was actually one of my best friends as a teacher, but a regular high school teacher. And she also tells me about how concerning it is that, you know, the newer generations are not very communicative, they, it's, it's like they're missing, maybe it's because of the pandemic, but maybe they're missing something, you know, it's really insane. So it's good to encourage, for sure, you know, encourage, especially the younger generations to yeah, get out there and try to talk to people go to a library go to, you know, go somewhere

Oliver Sin: 49:15

you know, gain a friendship with a mentors, you know, someone that you trust, have some mentors, because I think their opinion makes a huge difference. Without filming Whoo, my mentors opinion about forwards. It will take me a long time to overthink and hesitated to make a right decision or or or not. But after something will mention it, you know, foreign is my favorite city in the world. You should take this opportunity. You agree to decide, how can you say no, you know, to have a priceless opportunity to teach and to leave and to I have one month experience in Florence, Italy, as an artist, that's, that was an amazing experience and opened my eyes. And I, if I didn't go there, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't inspire my student, I wouldn't tell my students you should go to if you could afford go to go to see the wheel, well, we aren't well in Florence in Rome, because they open your eyes, they're, you know, they're open your eyes, you know, you and I've been there. So that's why sometimes, and it's no substitute from the wheel experience, the wheel experience, of course, it costs you some money, it costs you some, you know, it, you have to, you have to pay for your, your, your opportunity. So, but I hope, my student they, you know, they, they know how to invest the money that time to gain, they're that good experience. So that's something that, you know, as an educator, I share my experience with my students. So I appreciate it, my students, they value my opinion. And, you know, of course, I make a lot of, you know, wrong opinion or mistakes as well. But life is short, you don't know you learn from your mistakes. Of course, I travel, I make a lot of life bad experience as an artist. But we learn we learn from that we learn from the experience. So I'm, I'm aware, very positive artists, I like to focus on my positive experience that I learned from the positive experience, I also learned from my bad experience as well. Life is short, you know, it, everything happened for a reason. So good experience, and bad experience. They both teaching me something, it just made me who I am. So of course, we keep changing we make we make other voices, or we find another, you know, platform, or, you know, everyday life if we're allowed to challenge. So we all have capability to do a lot of different things. But everything is in your head, it's up to you to pursue your artistic stream, and, you know, make your life more meaningful or memorable for you. You know, that is the most important part. Because after all, is your own life. Bravo. It completely allowed me to say that.

Laura Arango Baier: 52:31

You're welcome. Yeah, no, it's a really, you know, I think so many people today just go through the motions of life. You know, they don't, it's like, they're just existing, they're not really living. And I feel like, you know, a lot of creative people are the type of people who want to break free from that right there. We're like the people who just, we want to experience life, we want to see the beauty and things. I mean, that's probably also why we like to draw, right, we're, we have to see things. And, yeah, and when you learn to draw, you realize how to store Did you really see things? Because you have to actually draw them right. And you have to make them look the way they are. So it's, yeah, it's

Oliver Sin: 53:10

a great point, you can have that. I know, the first experience, you know, Russian Academy advisory invited me to teach there for an entire month before the pandemic, I think that was at the end of 2019, December. And I think I returned to California back to 2020. February 1, I think pandemic is started around that time. And that was my first international workshop. And I didn't know and I, you know, now it has been almost two years, three years, I travel. And I realized that traveling actually opened my eyes to see something that I don't know, traveling actually opened my eyes as an artist. And I'm lucky to share this with my students. I'm so grateful I travel around the world. Without my credit cards. I travel around the world with my artistic skills. They invited me worldwide to teach a workshop. So I think traveling, I meet so many different people. And without of course in the beginning, we are scared. It's not in my comfort zone. I have to leave it in forests for one month. And now you look at it. It's fine, Oliver, isn't it but at that time I said but I you know, we are all human beings. We create all those war do not allow ourselves to go further. So you know I have I can spend hours and hours you talk about my excuse not allowing myself to travel. Because Oh, I have been living in America for so long. I don't speak Italian. I don't want You stay at a dormitory. And then I don't want to share anything with other people. But once I arrived there, and it changed my life, it changed my vision as a person. And I enjoy sharing, you know, I share the kitchen with other staff, you know, the people that I work with. And sharing is fun. So, it took me a long time to realize that traveling is actually it is, is something that opened my eyes, and I can able to attend a lot of different museum. So next year 2024. And I would schedule more than I think I seven workshops, and mostly domestic. So I travel a lot of you know, workshop, in the beginning of traveling, it would just say scary. But now I, you know, like tonight, I'm traveling to Hong Kong and teach a workshop. And I'm excited. I mean, I'm, and I think life is for a lot of surprise surprises. So if, you know, four years ago, you asked me, Oliver would like to invite you to come and teach here. I said, Hold on one second, let me think about that. But now it's easier for me because I think everything happened for a reason. You know, I like to go and see other culture. You know, I like to go to Mexico City i i taught in Mexico City for more than three or four times, I'm going back there next year, Mexico City, and then Harlem, Amsterdam next year. And you know, and of course, UK, and up past all those domestic workshops in America. And I believe that traveling actually opened my eyes, I like to go to a museum, I like to, you know, take advantage of the my traveling, and then I can able to see the Newseum, and I think the good thing is, the best thing is I can able to see the different culture, the more I see the different culture, the more I realize how small I am as a human being. Because, you know, you cannot able to learn all those things by reading a book, you have to allow yourself to go out and explore things for yourself. Because, you know, it's your SLI, as I said, you know, it's your life, it's up to you know, how to make it, you know, sweet or, you know, or, of course, in the beginning is sorrow, but you know, how can you able to turn this lemons into, as, you know, lemonade, you know, so that is my philosophy. So I'm looking forward to teaching workshop next year 2024. And I'm so grateful that, you know, I have a lot of like different, you know, invitation to share my knowledge and my knowledge in it with other people worldwide. So, and I'm very, very grateful for that opportunity. Yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 58:02

that's awesome. Because you can also, you know, you go to these places you'll learn from everyone there. And then you're also teaching them so it's this really nice, give and take situation.

Oliver Sin: 58:12

Yeah, so we want it, I find it rewarding. Rewarding, of course, in the beginning is not easy, you we are scared, we ask a Oh, it's too cold, it's too hot, we are scared. But you know, I turned 50 I, I've learned how to, you know, follow the flow, just, you know, relax, enjoy your experience. So I think my I've, I've learned how to make my experience more enjoyable because, after all, is my own personal experience, I will try to remain more positive, how to deal with all those challenges. I mean, the language, the time, you know, the jetlag, the weather, there's a lot of challenge, but sometime we put all those aside, we look at the end we so you know, you know how amazing to you know, to travel around the world without my credit cards, with my artistic skills and stuff. So that was I'm looking forward to all those international workshop that happening in next year. 2024 So, you know, I'm very, very grateful for all those opportunities

Laura Arango Baier: 59:20

salutely And where can people sign up for your workshops, um,

Oliver Sin: 59:26

I will send you a list so you can post it on the screen. So those are the those are the some of the workshops that for 2024 and I like to do it like once you know once a once a month international workshop I'll usually emitted into two or three workshops. I usually promote it on my on my website, and then on my social media, I use my Instagram most of the time so you know nowadays is so easy to find. You just go to Google type all of those things workshop 2024 You can find you know something pop up. So,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:00:01

hey, though, yeah, and what's your Instagram, by the way,

Oliver Sin: 1:00:06

all of a sudden, all of a sudden, and I use Instagram more often. And of course, I use Facebook, Facebook is all effort thoughts in top three, but I use mostly Instagram all of us seem. So just all of us, only one, all of us in with the blue check. That's me. So, I do encourage your students, you know, take advantage of the social media, I love social media, because I find it social media is a is an inspiration. And I think you can find a lot of like, picture weapons, a lot of like high resolution picture weapons from social media, and social media also connect my artwork with a lot of like, celebrities, you know, well known celebrity. So I think, you know, 2023 Now, I think the world is always grounded. And with the social media, my artwork connect with a lot of like, you know, well known famous celebrity, and I'm very, very grateful for that. So I do encourage a lot of lies, students, take advantage of the social media, you don't have to use it. But if you want to become a professional artist, I think you need to learn how to promote yourself to the world.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:20

Definitely. Very true. Well, thank you, Oliver, so much for your amazing advice. I'm so happy to have had you on the podcast. Thank

Oliver Sin: 1:01:30

you so much for having me, Laura. I have an amazing time. So again, thank you for your support. And I will see you guys next time. And thank you, Laurie for having me.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:01:39

Of course. Thank you again to all of our sin for joining us on the podcast. If you'd like to sign up for one of his workshops, be sure to check out the show notes to find all the links. You'll also find the links to a social media as well as this website.