Christian Fagerlund: 0:00

Just make the best tam work you can, don't rush it make your best work, because the better that work is, the better. It's going to kind of translate in any of these different venues that you can share images of your work or how you work.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:13

Welcome to the BoldBrush podcast where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. To start up season two, I interviewed Christian fairland, a figure painter, who is also a professor at the University of North Texas. We talk about his career as an artist and how being a professor at University of North Texas has affected his career and sales, as well as some really awesome tips for artists who are just starting out and don't quite know where to start. And we talk about some of his upcoming projects, such as online courses and some zoom portraits. Hello, Christian, how are you today?

Christian Fagerlund: 0:51

I'm good. I'm good. Thank you.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:53

Thank you for joining us. This is really great to be able to hear from you.

Christian Fagerlund: 0:56

Oh, it's my pleasure. Really happy to be here.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:59

That's good. So for people who don't know who you are, can you give us a little bit of your background and what you do?

Christian Fagerlund: 1:07

Yeah, so I was born and grew up in Michigan, born in 73, and spent up until high school there and then moved to California for undergrad and went to the University of California, Santa Barbara, doing art studio, graduated 95 and then spent about seven years working as working for a variety of decorative painting companies doing work kind of all over the US and abroad. And then I think it was about 98 or 99 I was my wife kind of helped me realize that I needed to get back into fine art. Like, I don't know decorative arts, it's kind of easy to get sucked into that world because there's there's always a demand for it. There's always wealthy people wanting things painted in their homes. Kind of weird things. But and it kind of satisfies you in some way. Because you're still painting, you're still mixing color and creating images and things like that, but, but not really satisfying because you're not, you're not in control. So I decided to kind of build a portfolio apply to grad schools, and in 2002 got accepted to the New York Academy of Art, which was wonderful. I wasn't planning on didn't really want to go to New York for school I visited many times, and it was just kind of too intense of a place for me.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:37

Oh, yeah.

Christian Fagerlund: 2:38

I know the feeling. But um, but once I learned about that school, I was like, I'll tech school could be anywhere and I would have gone. Just the faculty, their mission, it was just perfect. So yeah, did school and then did the third year postgraduate fellow ship that they offer to spend three years there, and then a couple more years working in New York and then then moved to the Bay Area, did a bit of decorative work, kept my kind of studio practice up, and then started teaching, which was just totally off my radar as a kind of profession, but just immediately knew I loved it. So started adjunct teaching at a wide variety of schools in the Bay Area. And then finally, in 2014, got a job at the University of North Texas where I'm still teaching. And I am a Principal Lecturer of drawing and painting there. And I've been there for the past eight years. Yeah, I kind of, I'd say, a majority of my time and energy goes into my kind of full time teaching job. And then whenever I can, I'm, I'm making my own work and exhibiting when I can and kind of building that that side of my kind of professional life.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:54

Wow. So teaching really wasn't something you expected, like how did you end up teaching them?

Christian Fagerlund: 4:00

It was it was part of the postgraduate fellowship at the academy. Like they choose, they choose three students to stay on for third year. And part of that fellowship is to actually be a TA for for the instructors that are for the faculty, which is a little odd, because, you know, usually in grad school if you're a TA or your teen for students that are undergrad, but the academy is all graduate students. So it's, in some ways, it was a little weird, because you're like, helping teach people that are only a year two years behind you are going through the experience that you just went through. But um, so that was like the first taste of it. And it was just no, they were six hour classes, the first three hours the the instructor would be there. And then the second three hours, you would be there kind of helping students in any way you could. And it was it was a Really interesting practice because your team for different faculty who all have kind of different approaches. So during those three hours, you know, if it was class for Steven assail, I would be kind of hooked into his way of thinking and painting and teaching and just trying to kind of emulate that as much as I could for for the second three hours. And then you'd switch and go over to you know, John to Martin's class and have kind of have to shift your mindset to his methods. But it was just it was so satisfying to to see to feel like you were really helping people and kind of making a difference in their in their kind of learning process. So it was, it was just, yeah, I hadn't hadn't really thought about it and pass, but it was super satisfying.

Laura Arango Baier: 5:49

Wow, that I guess it was one of your callings. And yeah,

Christian Fagerlund: 5:53

yeah, definitely, I feel very lucky to have had to have had the opportunity to kind of get exposed to it. And to do it after that, you know, after, after the Academy. The first teaching job was a, it was at a place in Brooklyn called U of T. United Federation of Teachers. And it was kind of a continuing ed program for retired teachers. So really light kind of beginning level stuff. But they were such a great group, because they were all, you know, lifelong teachers. And now they were the students. And so they were just really empathetic and receptive to learning. And excited. So. So it's yeah, and then that, that led into other continuing ed, and until a work in the Bay Area, and community college, just wide variety of, of student populations, like working different skill levels, different kind of socio economic backgrounds, and really great. Wow,

Laura Arango Baier: 6:55

so how has teaching all these different groups of people change the way that you view your work?

Christian Fagerlund: 7:01

Yeah, I think I remember at some point, someone said, has his teaching helped you in your own work? And I had to think about it for a bit. And ultimately came up with well, at that time, I thought, no, no, has really helped my own work. Because when you're doing it so much, you've you know, you've got a certain mindset, a certain kind of critique mindset, where you're looking out for, you know, for weaknesses in student's work, and trying to get help them get better. And so there's this there are these certain kinds of benchmarks or criteria that you're that you're kind of asking of your students. And if you're, if your head is in that mindset, so many hours a day, then when you come back to your own work, it feels it's hard to kind of like flip that off, especially if you're trying something new trying to kind of work in a different way work with a different process, explore new, new kind of ways of drawing and painting. It felt difficult to kind of get rid of that teacher mindset.

Laura Arango Baier: 8:05

Yeah, the hypercritical Yes. Side.

Christian Fagerlund: 8:09

Yeah, yeah, yeah, in the same way that like during grad school, when you're studying with all these different instructors with different approaches, giving you different kinds of critique, like, I don't know, it took me probably two years to, to, like, get their voices out of my head and figure out kind of what was important to me in my work. So, but I do think, really good things have come out of it. Mainly just kind of clarifying, like, through through through teaching through communicating with students, um, you start to distill your thoughts about kind of what's, what's important in the work and what makes it good. Whether it has to do with composition or design, where it's not this kind of just purely intuitive thing that you're that you're thinking about and doing. But it's it's like you've had to verbalize that with students and demonstrate those things with students. And so that brings a certain kind of clarity for those essentials, like in your own work,

Laura Arango Baier: 9:13

right. Yeah, it makes the ideas more concrete. Yeah, yeah, if they're not concrete, then the other person won't understand what you're even trying to explain. Yeah,

Christian Fagerlund: 9:23

yeah. Communication is so key in that relationship, just clear direct communication. So yeah, it's it's so overall, I think it's been good. And it's been it's been good in that. You know, I feel like I especially at the University of North Texas, I have classes that are very, kind of fundamentals skill based, like learning See, learning about color, learning about proportion, and shape and figure structure and anatomy like all of these very kind of straightforward subjects. And then there's, there's a whole other set of classes, you know, like mainly the kind of senior studio senior capstone classes, or teaching graduate students where they're working on their own things, their own ideas, their own ways of working. And with them, it's teaching those classes has been great in terms of just kind of opening up my own ways of thinking, because you have to, it's no longer about just kind of transference of knowledge, it's about being empathetic with how that individual wants to work, and trying to help them find the most efficient and visually IMPACTFUL way of making that work. So that, that I think that kind of openness, in terms of my, my mindset, even my aesthetics, has, has helped me in my own practice. And I think a lot of it's still, I'm still kind of processing a lot of it, you know, a lot of those lessons that I've worked on with those students, like incorporate incorporating that into my own practice.

Laura Arango Baier: 11:07

Yeah, and I think that's also what I would say, would make you a very good instructor to maintaining that openness, and that empathy to trying to understand what this individual needs instead of trying to make them all little copies of you, which, unfortunately, what happens with a lot of other artists, when they have students, they just ended up being many copies.

Christian Fagerlund: 11:28

Yeah, they, I've always not wanted that, and actively worked against that. Even if it is a more skill based technique based course. It's like, you know, there's, there's some core principles that you're trying to get across, like in a figure painting class, you know, I'm talking about gesture, anatomy and color and form and, but you can, you can have those, those kind of basic criteria down. But my God, like it can manifest in so many different ways. So I really don't want them to paint like me, but I do want them to illustrate an understanding and knowledge and practice of of those fundamentals. But yeah, it's always it's always felt a bit picky to me. And when you see students coming out of school, where it's just so derivative of the instructors work, whether it's in terms of the aesthetic or the aesthetic technique, subject matter, you know,

Laura Arango Baier: 12:29

yeah. And I think it's beautiful to also, as it seems like you're doing to maintain that individual's voice because it can get drowned out, especially when it's just a beginner, just starting out in the world of painting and drawing and expression. It's so easy to lose their voice, especially in the beginning years, it's almost like after that we have to get it back.

Christian Fagerlund: 12:53

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I totally agree with that. And there's often it feels like, during that, during that phase of learning kind of the fundamentals, it's you kind of forget about your own voice, you know, like, you're kind of pushed up to the, to the side. And, you know, part of the advanced classes is about trying to kind of coax that out of the person. And not only like what their original voice was, but like, how they've changed and who they are now, you know, like, what are what are you really passionate about? Like, what do you want to paint? What do you want to say, with your pain? What feeling do you want to create with your work? And that's, that's, for me, that's kind of always changing, and some always pushing students to not get in a rut, you know, like, if you're not, if you're not into what you're doing. Ignore the feedback, the positive feedback that you've gotten in the past of that work, and just just move into something new challenge yourself with something new.

Laura Arango Baier: 13:56

I agree. Yeah. And unfortunately, what I've seen also, which I'm sure you've seen, too, is people who are painting for the market, instead of making a market of their paintings, you know?

Christian Fagerlund: 14:10

Yeah, yeah. And they made, I mean, they're, I can, I can sympathize with people that do that. Like, it's understandable. And yeah, I mean, I mean, making making a living at making art is really, really difficult. And there are things that I think it can be very tempting to adopt any tactics to kind of continue the success that you've been been having. And scary to kind of let that go. But, but it's, yeah, I've felt that pressure points, but it's, it's never it's never sat Well, for me, like it's it's always felt wrong.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:50

Yeah, it feels like you're not satisfied.

Christian Fagerlund: 14:52

Yeah. And you're not growing. You're not kind of addressing like your own change, and who you are, you know, Um, and often with, you know, often with with people's work that you see just kind of remained the same year after year after year, I'm not talking about like, I think it's great to kind of, of course dig in and stick with something for for a good chunk of time, whether that's a year or three years or five years or whatever. But where are you see this? Almost too much continuity over kind of decades of professional life. I just, I always wonder like, God, don't you get bored? You don't but but you know, maybe they don't. Maybe it's maybe it's great for them. And maybe it's making paintings for the market? Because they've had success with that. Things? I don't know. But I can't, I would just I'd go a bit nuts. Oh, me,

Laura Arango Baier: 15:48

too. Yeah. And like you said, there's, it's almost like a plateau. You know, they there's no growth, there's no exploration, exactly. Like you said, and I know, maybe for some collectors, you prefer that to not happen, although some collectors when they see that a painter takes a different direction. They, they go crazy for it, they love it. They're like, Oh, my God, I have to collect these two. So I guess in that way, it just, that's what's so important about, you know, when you paint for the market, versus when you create a market of things, you know, which leads me to this question, which is, how has teaching affected your sales? Yeah, I

Christian Fagerlund: 16:28

was thinking about this question. And I think, I think in a very straightforward and basic way, it has, I'd say hurt my sales mainly, in that, I mean, just straight up, like, like, you've got kind of X amount of energy, you know, to give to your work. And for me, my work is teaching and drawing and painting. And so the more the more kind of time and energy that I give to my teaching, it means that I'm making less work overall, which means that I'm selling less work. So it's, it's, yeah, like, it's yet like, I wouldn't, I wouldn't kind of have it any other way. Like, if I was, if I was just full time, if I had all the money in the world, I would still be itching to teach. Maybe not as much as I do now. But it's, it's just as kind of satisfying. And I feel just as passionate about it, as I do about making work. So So I think it's about like finding, for me, it's about finding a balance between those two main activities, you know, and then it kind of ebbs and flows. I mean, they're they're kind of connections that I've made through teaching, that have helped in terms of connecting with galleries or, or showing with with colleagues that I teach with. So there are there are things that have come out of that, but I'm sure that my sales would be better overall, if if I wasn't teaching as much as I do. That makes sense.

Laura Arango Baier: 18:08

Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's, it's like you said, you have a limited amount of time a day. And if you had a you know, that teaching time was placed into selling time, then it would be a little bit different. Building your artists website can be a hassle. But with FASO, they make it easy to get online, sell more of your work and promote your art. Right now for our BoldBrush podcast listeners, you can get over 50% off your first year on FASO with their special link, simply visit faso.com forward slash podcast. FASO is a leading provider of Foner websites, they have online marketing tips that you get every week, as well as online workshops and other tips and tricks to help you sell your work. So remember, use our link faster.com forward slash podcast to get over 50% off right now. That's f a s o.com. Forward slash podcast. I'd also like to give a huge thank you and shout out to Chelsea classical studio for their continued support in this podcast. If you're looking for archival paintings of lives that are handmade with a lot of patients, then check them out at Chelsea classical studio.com. Yeah, yeah. But it's good that through your network, you've also been able to participate in shows and work with galleries.

Christian Fagerlund: 19:19

Yeah, yeah, of course. And it's I think it's just, you know, there's a lot of kind of comparison that you make with yourself, between yourself and others that are, you know, making work exhibiting and I think it's just taking me a while to, to accept that I'm not one of those people that can have a solo show every year like it takes with the time that I have, it takes it takes a long time to build up enough work build up a full body of work that is kind of show worthy. You know, it's generally been every kind of three to four years, but then in between those solo shows. It's about continuing to build that exhibition. and record participating in as many group shows as I can, usually about six to 10 a year. So still make them work still exhibiting but but I'm, I can't expect myself to have the time to, at least with the way that I work I think if I was a quick painter or if my paintings were kind of quick then then maybe it would I'd be able to do more of that. But they're, they're slow going. They're kind of they're labor intensive, relative to I think a lot of contemporary art that's out there.

Laura Arango Baier: 20:33

And I think that's fine. I think it's also nice to have a slow pace. In a world where it's, you know, especially with social media, it's like, Go Go, go go post post post post. Yeah. And I'm also like you were I like to take my time with my work. And it kind of makes me feel a little bit funny about social media, because you know, you you feel this pressure on the inside of, Oh, my God, I have to post something. Yeah. But you're also so focused on making a beautiful piece that nothing else exists except that piece. Yeah. So I'm totally with you. I think everyone has their own pace for things. And you can make it work for you.

Christian Fagerlund: 21:11

Yeah, definitely. And it's, it was, you know, I just, I spent a couple months in Italy the summer with, well, the first five weeks with a study abroad program at u and T, took 15 students to Florence. And I mean, there are so many beautiful things that come out of that trip, and working with students in that environment. But one of them that I hope kind of stuck with them was just to see, see work that that's masterful, and that is ambitious, like, when I compare what I do with, you know, it's like, it's like, you get these incredible paintings that are so complex, that scale is incredible. You know, it took years to make, or maybe not years, if they had a, you know, at a workshop of people helping them make those paintings. But I just I wanted the students to see like, like, this is what's possible, it does not have to be, you know, make a painting every week or every two weeks, like you can spend your time and make something really special and unique and masterful. But you can't do that. You can't do that. And, you know, over a weekend, post a quick time lapse of it and you know, expect the same product, you know,

Laura Arango Baier: 22:34

Oh 100% Yeah. And it's like you also said it, it depends on the sensibilities of each person. I know, some people they work fast, like how the hell can not do that. Like, I don't know, if it's, there's something about it's like you're stopping and smelling the roses, and they smell the roses their way and then you smile. Yeah, which is, you know, it works out. But speaking of social media, how has social media also affected your work and even how you sell your work.

Christian Fagerlund: 23:07

So the, in terms of selling, it's, it's a relatively new area for me, I mean, I feel like I'm, I'm a kind of a couple of years, maybe more behind on, on kind of joining social media really learning to, to kind of utilize, utilize it as a as a, as a tool, period. But as a, as a, especially as a tool for for sales. I mean, I've, I've used Instagram, you know, I'd say over the last three or four years, I've kind of switched over more putting more focus on Instagram than Facebook, you know, and even that was kind of behind the trend. It's like, okay, I should have been doing that, like, two years before that. But I've primarily been using it as a way of, I guess, marketing myself in a in a kind of informal way, sharing work and sharing my process in a way that you wouldn't get from a gallery show or from Yeah, from other other venues. But I haven't I am just literally like now like this past month, past two months, just starting to dip my toe into the whole kind of sales potential of that platform. Yeah, so it's, it's been there's a lot to learn and it feels like it's kind of always changing very, very quickly. I mean, yeah, even with this, even with this most recent change, I think with kind of Instagram shifting over to reels kind of in competition with or trying to compete with Tik Tok and all that, but it going from this kind of image post based interaction to like, really prioritizing the reels like that. That whole switch one I don't, I don't like it. I don't like the pressure of it, but but just trying to kind of keep up with it as much as I can, without spending, you know, multiple hours a day focusing on it, it's, it's a little tricky, but it's, but it's been great in terms of exposure and getting people to kind of know who you are and who like what work you're making and what you're thinking about. Just I like the kind of informal quality of it. It's like, feels like studio visits with people, you know, instead of these polished finished bodies of work,

Laura Arango Baier: 25:36

you have more of an opportunity to be a little more open, a little more intimate, obviously, without exposing too much. But it's a good level of intimacy. Yes. People who love your work, and people who want to know more about your work. Yeah. Yeah. So aside from social media, I mean, there are a lot of other ways to sell your work and to get your work out there. And you did mention that you use your, your networking with the school and with a lot of your co workers to get your work out there. Do you have any tips for anyone who's just starting out who's maybe just finished a college or at an athlete? What tips would you give them to start getting their workout there?

Christian Fagerlund: 26:20

Yeah. So I think, I think first and foremost, it would be just make the best damn work, you can like, just don't rush it, just make make your best work. Forget about the marketing of it, like, initially, because the better that work is, the better it's going to kind of translate in any of these different venues that you can kind of share images of your work or how you work. I think another suggestion I would have is just to not not be kind of precious about, about your work, you know, just to be open to any opportunities to get your work out as often as you can. There are so many, so many opportunities to, to show work, whether it's kind of online venues or, you know, brick and mortar shows that are happening. I don't know if you know, cafe like.org call for artists. It's a great website that so it's I think it's cafe cfe.org. Or if you just googled call for artists. It's a hub that has 1000s and 1000s of open call Invitational juried shows, fellowships, residencies, things like that great opportunities. So you can, you can scroll through that get on their mailing list, set up some criteria, you know, for, what kinds of shows you're looking, looking for, and get emails, updates. But I will always, always suggest that to students to just like, just start getting your work out there. Because so much of it is about, I think, kind of building, building an exhibition history, which can start right away. And so few, like when you think about it, when you're looking at, you know, people seavees And looking at their exhibition history, it's it's rare that I know, the galleries or spaces that they're showing what makes an impression is that they're showing like or that they, that year, they've shown at X amount and X amount of shows, you know, you get big, bigger name galleries that are more well known. And that's wonderful. But I really think it's about the numbers, you know, it's about just getting your work out there and showing it as much as possible. Another thing I was thinking about is, I think of one big one, when you're when you're starting out is just to price your work low. Like you can, you can always go higher. But you can't, you can't go in reverse. And this kind of relates back to the not being precious about your work. Like, you want to just get your work out and you want to get your best workout. So, you know, I remember when I first started making sales, I mean, they were they were really low, low priced. Like the people that got those paintings, I think they were getting a good deal. But there were also like, you know, connections that came through those those dealer relationships and blossomed into into something bigger, you know, 510 15 years later, it's like that's invaluable and way, way more important than you know, making an extra 200 $500 on a painting and like just so I would I would say price low and then you know you're setting this precedent all art sales, they're, they're so arbitrary, you know, they're not really based on like Like how much time you've spent on it, or it's based on precedent, you know, like sales precedence, so. So you just want to kind of keep incrementally raising those prices, until you need, you might start to feel a, you know, a threshold where people are like, Oh, that's a little too much. And so you kind of back back down slightly, but so many of them are buying them as investments. I mean, it's wonderful when they're buying them because they love the work. But a lot of the dealers, they're, they're buying them with the hopes that they're getting it at a price, and they'll be able to sell that work, or it's worth will be way more 510 20 years from now. I guess one other thing, one big thing that I would say, I think a mistake that I see often is is I would suggest having, having an Instagram account, or social media account that is devoted purely to your work, to kind of separate have a personal account where you post pictures of your dogs and food and family members and everything. But I would not not mix the two just have a have an account. That's that's basically like an informal portfolio of your work, and your process, and anything related to that. And there are so many great resources on how to how to kind of build followers exposure on even studio sales, so many great resources with FASO and BoldBrush. So if you're not connected to them, I would get on their newsletter and utilize those resources. And there was also a great course that I took with Dina broadsky called Instagram for artists. And it was invaluable, like just chock full of great information, things I had no clue about. So I would also suggest, yeah, connecting with that. She's She She offers them regularly. And you can either do it live or recorded versions. But yeah, Instagram for artists,

Laura Arango Baier: 32:15

it's offered. Yeah. And the speaking of video courses, I know you're a professor at university. But you mentioned to me that you're also dipping your toes in creating some online courses. So tell us more about them?

Christian Fagerlund: 32:30

Yeah, um, yeah, I'm in the midst of it right now. I mean, the the plan is to kind of work on Well, I guess first off, I'll say, I love teaching at u and T, I love working with my students in the studio. I mean, it's it's ideal, but also wanted to find other ways of transferring knowledge and lessons to a broader audience. And at at an affordable rate, you know, so that it's accessible to people. So I'm starting, I've got a series of modules, ranging from kind of fundamentals to various drawing and painting techniques, different subjects, some that will be geared more towards advanced people that kind of are past those, those kinds of beginning and intermediate stages. So the course lists are written, I'm developing a space and figuring out the technology to, to make those videos. But try not to get bogged down in the technology too much, because it's like, I want something, I want something good, but I don't need, you know, a highly polished DVD. That's not what I'm thinking for these. So so the plan is to have kind of ala carte individual lessons that you can purchase, or kind of bundle them together into a module and kind of get a deal on on all of them together. So the plan is hopefully I'd say, Yeah, I'll be working on it through the fall and the spring. So I'm shooting for summer to start offering those those courses online.

Laura Arango Baier: 34:20

Nice. That's exciting. Yeah.

Christian Fagerlund: 34:23

Yeah. It's, I'm really excited about it. I think it'll be I think it'll be great. And it'll be combined. So those are kind of recorded lessons. But I also want to have an offering that's, that's live, you know, both kind of private classes, group critiques, live demos, things where there can be actual interaction and it's just not it's not just kind of about sharing lessons and information.

Laura Arango Baier: 34:52

Yeah, yeah. And then again, social media is the best place to do it And then do you have any other exciting upcoming projects? Yeah,

Christian Fagerlund: 35:05

I mean, one that I just started digging into over the past three or four weeks is it? Yeah, it's something I've wanted to do for a long time. But I'm, well, I'll preface it by saying, last year and a half, two years, ever since the pandemic hit, I started doing a lot of, you know, we were isolated alone in the studio, and I was kind of starving for some kind of studio interaction live. So I started doing these, these zoom figure drawings, you know, where there'd be a live model posing. And, and it was, it was frustrating at first, you know, when you're used to having a live model right in front of you, and you can kind of control lighting and pose and where you are in the room. And it you know, and there's a certain kind of lack of clarity, and clunkiness, to the, to a lot of zoom images. So it was frustrating at first, but But I grew to really like it. And it really started changing my whole drawing practice and how I thought about drawing. So that was, that was exciting. And, and it was great to be able to kind of access people from across the world, and be able to kind of work with them. So this project that I started a few weeks ago, it's, it's, it's a series of portraits of artists that I have followed have been inspired by for years now. And I'm approaching them, meeting with them through zoom, taking screenshots and doing a series of portraits of those artists. My aim is 30, I'm going to enter like my top 30. You know, and, yeah, I'm already in got four, four that are happening now and a lot more to kind of start an approach approach them to see if they're up for it. So is a some people can be kind of shy over zoom. Oh, yeah. Or artists that are not used to being looked at in that way as the model. But it's really it's a, it's a way to kind of, like, honor them, and kind of what they mean to me, and also to connect with a lot of them, because so many of them, I just I've never met, you know, mired from afar, you kind of are acquaintances on Instagram. So yeah, a way to kind of connect and get to know one another. So yeah, that's, and I'm hoping that that will eventually turn into an exhibition, and or a book, I'd love to kind of publish it as a book once it's finished. Oh, that'd be

Laura Arango Baier: 37:44

really great. Yeah. Well, I hope that it works out and you can get all of your 30 I know, it can be kind of hard to reach out to people and then to get them on Zoom. First and experience. Um, but I hope that they all get back to you. And then if anyone wants to get your video courses next year, of course, um, do you mind giving us your website?

Christian Fagerlund: 38:09

Yeah. So my website is first and last name. Christian. diggerland.com. CHR is TIANFAGRL und.com. Yeah, they can email me through the website. I'll start very soon, I'd say in the next week, I'll start a kind of email list subscription option on the website. But in the meantime, you can just hit contact, send me an email, and I'll add you to that contact list. And I'll also be, of course, advertising them on on Instagram and Facebook. So it'll, it'll get out there once it's once it's up.

Laura Arango Baier: 38:52

Yeah. And then we'll also put your Instagram and Facebook and your website in the show notes. So if anyone's interested, they can go check it out. So thank you so much, Christian, for joining me today.

Christian Fagerlund: 39:02

Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's been great.

Laura Arango Baier: 39:05

I appreciate it. Ya know, and I loved hearing the perspective from a teacher not just, you know, someone who's never had experienced teaching, which that's a teaching is a totally new beast. So it's, it's really interesting to hear your input. Good. Good. Yeah. This year, of course. Thank you.