A Life of Art in The Big Apple - Joseph Grieco

Joseph Grieco: 0:00

I think the one thing that I would say to young people is that is falling apart. Follow your dream. Ask yourself, what do you want? And then go out and think of anything, any way possible to paint and to make money doing it.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:17

Welcome to the BoldBrush podcast where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. Recently, we sat down with Joseph Grieco, an American painter who has been successfully living from his artwork for over 30 years. We talked in New York City in the 70s, and 80s, as well as tips on artists on how to sell your work and make a good impression on a prospective buyer.

Joseph Grieco: 0:39

Hi, my name is Joseph P. Grieco. And I'm sitting here in the Thomas Moran gallery. I'm in the middle of doing a solo exhibition. I've done eight of them here so far in the salmagundi Club, which is a great place and it's an honor to be here. I'd like to talk a little bit about my art career, how it started, how I needed to make money. And I used artists, because I always love drawing. I did it since I was a child at the age four. I was mentored by a woman who minded me at the time. And we put a little book together the old drawings that I did, and I found that to be very impressionable. Throughout grad school, I was always the kid they asked to do the drawings on the board and so on and so forth. And during my high school years, I paid a lot of attention to sports, and just drew occasionally. It wasn't until later on, when he started to approach college that I started to draw more seriously and wanting to do it as a profession.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:42

Where did you attend college?

Joseph Grieco: 1:44

I did study at the School of Visual Arts for time. I also later on studied at the Art Students League with Robert Beverly Hale Hale where I

Laura Arango Baier: 1:56

What year did you study at the Art Students League?

Joseph Grieco: 1:58

I started at the Art Students League probably in 1974. It had been some years since visual arts and at that point, they knew what I wanted to know. Prior to that, I had worked in a studio, professional art studio as a gofer in those days, it meant go for this go for that. It didn't pay much. But to me, it was great opportunity to be around some of the Golden Age illustrators.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:25

What did a gopher do and how much were you paid?

Joseph Grieco: 2:28

I think I was paid about $120 A week tops. And a gopher, as I said, is someone who goes to this goes for that you run messages to deliver jobs. You fill, fill the cement cans with cement, I ran a stat machine. And in any spare time that I had, I was given a tabular array and a table and I was able to do my own illustrations. And I was very grateful to have this opportunity which does not exist today. I learned more than ever learned in school. From there, I worked took a job off the Browns art supply store in Manhattan to West 45th Street. And that would have been around 1974 as well at the end of 74.

Laura Arango Baier: 3:19

Tell us more about your time at the art supply store.

Joseph Grieco: 3:23

So in red 74 as well, I took a job in Auckland grounds, art supplies, though, which was the biggest one around at the time they went to West 46th Street, which was the hub for a lot of ad agencies and so forth as well. So I met a lot of very famous people are called on to do the original comic books, he signed the book for me, among others, Andy Warhol used to come into the store. And I was able to familiarize myself with all the supplies that are available. Not everybody gets that opportunity. And that really helped my workout quite a bit. When that ended, I went into business with who was going to be my first wife, and a buddy of mine, and we opened up a rental sales operation in Central Park, for which I handled the posters, the advertising and all things like that. And He skated professionally as well. I also was asked to do a record on a roller skate. And I became a choreographer at that time, which which also enabled my art career quite a bit in that I see my art somewhat as a set as a set design on Broadway. There are main characters, there are supporting characters, just like in a movie or a player. And I use that as a tool when I set up a painting in terms of composition. So after the skating, business ended, I didn't know what to do. So I was in a coffee shop and Along came a top salesman from balsa wood, menswear named Stone stone, a great guy. And I sell on that board. And he said, Joe, boy, what are you doing with yourself? And I said, Well, I'm looking for jobs to come on over to Paul Stewart and then great salesman. I did that. And within a couple of weeks, I was the top salesman there. And I wonder if doing a lot of their coordinations, putting pocket square braces in ties?

Laura Arango Baier: 5:26

What did it mean to be a top salesman?

Joseph Grieco: 5:28

Well, to be the top salesman, you basically have to sell a lot of merchandise, you have to be well liked by the customers, and you have to build a client base. And you have to have the wherewithal to know how to do that. And to be presentable. And you have to have knowledge, you have to know what you're talking about. You have to build their confidence, and follow and everyone have a line waiting to see me in particular. And what happened was these guys after when they were all CEOs are doctors and lawyers, and they make quite a bit of money. And they say, How can we be so good at this? And I said to them, Well, I follow the dress. Well, we can show me how to do that. But more than that, perhaps it's because I'm an artist. And they said to me, Well, I'd love to see your work. So I grew up reading pictures, and before going out and selling two or three paintings a month, and equaling my salary. And I said, you know, I think I can actually make a living at this, my father had made me guilty because he was an accountant. And he said, you know, Joe, it's a great thing. But you got to make a living, which is initially why I stayed advertising at School of Visual Arts. But when I started selling these paintings, I lost my guilt. And I said, I think I can do this. So the next thing I did was I did an Outdoor Show, the village art show in Manhattan, or new square at it, which was in about 1986 1986, I did the spring show, I arrived there with 30 paintings, and I sold 25. I said to myself, This is why I was put here. And that's what really, that's when the guilt totally left me about trade and just sell paintings. And I felt that if that's true, which I believe it is, I will be protected. And as long as I do my homework, and the rest is history, you know, there was a guy on my blog, who was an architect, and he wanted to he like physically doing the work, he dropped out of his firm, started a business. And he said to me, Joe, something will always come along. If you really can't pay your rent, as long as you've done your homework, you're good, something will happen. It always has. And then I met another gentleman who was influential in my starting to the pastels. And he gave me a quote by Kurt, the great philosopher. And it said, Until prior to its commitment, Providence cannot say, once there's commitment privative sets in and events of finance will occur. And they did. And so they're all these little messages, I got that I believe around the spiritual. And they gave me faith in myself, and faith in God, which I believe in anyway. And so the rest is history there. It's now 40 years later, and I've been selling paintings for the last 35 years successfully.

Laura Arango Baier: 8:35

What did you have to do back then, as an artist that artists today can't even imagine?

Joseph Grieco: 8:40

I think about young people today. And I wonder how it is for them. But I'd like to share how it was for me. For me, I wasn't a silver spoon. And it was always that I had to make a had to make money, or I can't do my art. So I had to come up with ways that I can do that. And still enjoy painting. So at the time that I did work at Paul Stewart took a bunch of weeks off during the summer. And it was up on the east side around 90th Street between lexan park and I liked the way the light was hitting a brownstone. I started painting in watercolor, a woman comes out and she said to me, she's like, that's my building. I own it. My ground stone, could I buy that? And I said sure she was how much would that be? And off the top of my head at the time I came up with$250 and I was so happy with that. She bought it she was happy. And she told the woman next door what had happened and that woman then commissioned me to do one. And then the woman next to her commissioned me to do one. And so then I did another painting Waggles hardware on Third Avenue which is the third generation hardware store. And I went in with the painting and I asked the owner I said he didn't pay Think of your place, are you interested? I'd love to buy it how much and I say 250. She said, Great. We've been friends ever since she ran the boning about 1516 in my paintings. So I needed to make money. And that was one way I can do it. Then Then came up since I had the hardware store the medicines, I made a portfolio. And this was at the German town, which doesn't exist anymore. But there must have been events and famous restaurants declined to convince the Hindenburg, the Bavarian and so on. And I went into each of these places with no portfolio of photographs of the paintings I've done. And he said, Would you like to have a portrait of your of the facade, and every one of them and say, Absolutely, in fact, the Heidelberg, one for the grandparent mother and the grandfather, because they're a generational operation as well. So it taught me that you have to go and get it, no one's going to knock on your door. If you do that, later on, they will knock on your door, they will call your phone, they will look you up. But you'd have to establish yourself. And back then I could do that that way. And you probably could still do it today. But it'd be a little more difficult. Just as there are no more studios, I had an advantage. And wonder what is the young person do? I was able to live on $120 a week they paid me so much. I think the one thing that I would say to young people is that is falling apart, follow your dream. Ask yourself, what do you want, and then go out and think of anything, any way possible, to paint and to make money doing it? If your silver spoon and God bless him, but you still have to try hard?

Laura Arango Baier: 11:54

Why is it important to seek out and talk to the boss,

Joseph Grieco: 11:58

I would say if you if you want to get ahead, if you want someone to see your work, you need to speak to the top guy. This was always my approach. Now not everybody can execute this. I believe in the good talker. I was gifted with that. But I always felt go to the boss, avoid the Secretary, avoid the resume, because it's gonna sit there. What I always did was if I wanted an illustration job, and I got quite a few of them, I would look at where I was going. And I would do a portfolio geared on what they were trying to sell. And somehow get to speak to the boss who wants to make money. And I would say, look, I can make you money. Here's what I do. And he looked at it and he goes, Okay, we'll give you a shot. What did you like you liked my perseverance. You liked my confidence. And you liked the fact that I knew you wanted to make money. Some artists think Well, it's an opportunity to illustrate. But you have to ask yourself, why are they illustrators? That because they love your work, it's because they believe your work and sell what they do. And I don't want to confuse the issue of finance with the love of art. I wish it didn't exist. For me, it did. Have you been silver spoon and gone to Florence when I was 12, I would much prefer that and not have to worry, and just share what I've learned with others. But it wasn't that way for me. And I don't think it's that way for most of the people that God gives this gift to. But he wouldn't give you something that you couldn't handle. As long as you try to stay in touch with that gift. Don't abuse it be true to it be true to yourself.

Laura Arango Baier: 13:47

And how exactly should one talk to the boss?

Joseph Grieco: 13:51

Well, when when you bring your portfolio, render your work, and you speaking to the boss, you have to bear in mind that this fellow is in business to make money. He probably loves what he does. But the bottom line is he can't exist without making money. And he has to be able to look at your work and say this work can sell what I do. This is what illustration is about. And he gives you a job you turn it in, and it can't do that he's not going to call you back. So you have to understand what what that pressure is on you. And it's it's as simple as that. That the guys that do well and illustrating guys that sell product, you know? And so that's that's pretty much all you can say about

Laura Arango Baier: 14:46

what's the difference between the boss and the everyday person who wants to buy your art.

Joseph Grieco: 14:51

Okay, now there's a huge difference between selling fine art work that comes from your heart. Because it's what you want On paint, and illustration, it's two entirely different things. The way I've been making my living for the last 35 years and selling paintings, my fine art paintings, what I look for in myself there, and I believe what wants people to own them is that they are from my heart, from my soul. They're not hotel paintings, rooms, those that you see in a hotel, if I wanted to make a fortune, I would do that. But that is my goal. As a painter, I always wanted to be able to paint what I paint, and still sell it. Now bear in mind, that question for me is the leg probably may always be. So what I do is I try to paint. First of all, the information per se, has become secondary to me. It's how do I translate what I've experienced in a sensitive and evocative way, so that the viewer can step in and feel something. I don't care if they save as the Empire State Building on as the Brooklyn Bridge, or lake Saranac. I want them to say I feel that I had a woman say, I feel like I want to cry. Another woman said I feel happy, then had been successful if I hear those words. So I think that that's the ingredient that my paintings lead to. And I think that that is from listening to my inner self is a zone that an artist gets into. When you're in that zone, you create a special thing that only you can do. And that differs from selling an illustration to the boss. Because anyone can do that you're being told, You're representing a product, it has to look exactly like the product, there is no room for a theory of space. We're in with my fine art paintings. Not all the information is there. Sometimes the viewer has to fill in the information, but I paint it in such a way that it does not leave reality. But it creates kind of a veil. That is a spiritual veil. And it makes it evocative.

Laura Arango Baier: 17:22

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Joseph Grieco: 18:20

Well, you know, I don't know exactly what young artists are up against today, today, because I'm not out there. But I know how it was for me. And I know that at the time that I was around, the camera was starting to take over. For illustration. If you look at magazines from the 40s 50s, or early 60s, almost everything's an illustration. I still love looking at them. The camera came in, the airbrush came in. And it was it was less illustration. So I had to work a little harder to get jobs. And so I suppose there's a correlation there between myself and the younger ones today, in that they have barriers as well. And I think that the barrier is always going to be there, no matter what generation that you're in. You know, so once again, you have to, you have to find your own way. Unfortunately, there is no formula for that. And that's why I always stress look inside yourself, ask yourself, what do I want? What do I need? Do anything possible within the law? Of course to get that and follow your heart?

Laura Arango Baier: 19:39

How much did artists make with those odd jobs in the 70s?

Joseph Grieco: 19:44

You know, back in those days in the 70s I mean he might get $250 for an illustration job to get 500 If you are really top of the line, well known guy you probably get 1000s But of course it depends on on the type of job the size of the job. And being younger, you're always going to be up against the real pros. We've been at it for 3540 years already. It's pretty significant competition. Back then you had Bernie Fuchs, people like that, before him yet linebacker and NC Wyeth, and they were the top there with the Golden Age illustrated illustrators. But there's always a place, there's always a spot where you can sell your work. And once again, you have to find that spot, you have to look hard. And one thing I will say is, when I say you have to look hard, you have to be put here, I believe, to be an artist to do this to be a successful artist. And the reason I say that, and I'm sorry for the life experience, and what I've seen, a lot of people say, Well, I'd love to be an artist, you know, you know, we used to do after the festivals that people will come up and they'd say, You guys have made you sit out there in the weekend and you sell paintings, we make a lot of money isn't that great? They don't realize you have to have the whole time during the weekend to make the paintings you got to get to the place yet set it up. It's hard work. So a lot of people said, I want to be an earnest, I want to be an artist. sounds romantic. There is nothing romantic about it. It's hard work. So what happens is, when it gets a little too hard. I've seen it a million times. But the ones who were put here to do it, I believe are backed by God, they have that they'll stay with it. Something will always protect them. If they are willing to listen to that in itself again, and also say, and I think people should think this way, I never will say my work my work. hate the word isn't my work. It's given to me. I consider myself a catalyst. It comes in, it's to go out. I don't know. And I can exemplify that. And I think great painters like Thomas Moran felt the same way. And look at a red oak in the fall. It's rent on its own out in the woods, beautiful. It makes me feel this tiny, tells me there's a God is something is a higher power. And I think generally, people should vote that I think it would help them not just in the world. But in their life in general.

Laura Arango Baier: 22:32

Why is it important to dress presumptively? And how can it impact your career?

Joseph Grieco: 22:37

Well, so to speak a little bit about about appearance, I think I always thought it was an important thing. I can speak personally on this, but I think would be good advice. When I was young, I never forget I had shoulder length hair that was back in the 60s, late 60s. And my dad said, you know, Joe, you don't have to look eccentric to be an artist. And I said, Well, you know, he's just an old guy, you know, but you know, he was right. You don't have to have a ring in your nose, you don't have to have paint on your face. If somebody wants to do that, I have no problem. That's their prerogative, I'm not going to tell them what to do. However, I do know when I'm having an exhibit. And I sit there looking presentable with a jacket and a tie into a pocket square. You know, that's composition, just like in a painting. And they look at it and they said, Gee, this guy must make some money, he's able to dress well. Well, the same thing, if you go on an interview, you can't look like a slob. You know, I feel that it's important to look good to look presentable. It'll make you feel better for one thing, it'll give you more self respect, and people will respect you, you know, they really will. And, again, you look, it looks somewhat f1 people they want to buy from something that they believe is going to have staying power, or they want that art to appreciate. They want to look at a guy or a girl who they feel is going to be around for a while and stay within the realm of success. Sometimes I don't like to even admit that but that's sometimes people that's why people buy a painting. They may love it. But they also want it to be worth something over time. So I think your appearance could have a lot to do with that. Now mind you there are many great artists who look very eccentric. And I say God bless them. That was my approach. But every artist has to make his own decision about that. But I feel that looking clean and presentable is always in your best interest.

Laura Arango Baier: 24:46

Let's hear some more advice for young artists looking to sell their work.

Joseph Grieco: 24:51

Now for young artists today. I would say a great way to start out is to do The outdoor festivals, you know, on display panels, they're all over the country. And I did that for many, many years going back, and you make some incredible money, you really do. You travel to different states, you see the country, you you your work is exposed. You can't it can't just sit in your house, people have to see it. And that's one way for you to get it out there yourself. And you can get commissions by doing that. And you can support yourself. Not for everybody. But it's one way that you can on your own. Promote your art to come home with a paycheck.

Laura Arango Baier: 25:45

How do you handle a conversation with a prospective buyer?

Joseph Grieco: 25:49

In generating sales and speaking to a client? Number one, I am what you call soft sell. I let them look, I explained to them, these original paintings, I'll tell them what the medium is. And then I'll just say, if they have any questions on the artist, feel free to ask. And then if they start, if they show interest in one looking at it, I might step up. And I'll say the like the like that? Oh, yes, I do. Well, I'll tell them a little bit about the painting, you know, then, once they start to talk, if it sounds like they're aiming towards a discount, never offer something, let them ask you. Next thing, ask them, What is your method of payment? What is your method of payment, because if it's a credit card, you give them a discount, you're gonna lose money on the credit card as well. Is it going to be cash is it going to be a channel, these are all important things. And other than that, it's just tell them about the painting, how it's framed, perhaps let them know that it's not a good ground, let them know that it's not gonna deteriorate. It's been varnished, whatever it takes to give them all the information that they need. Well, let's say if it's an oil painting, I would say you know, it's done on an ampersand panel, or it's done a notional and then it has several coats of varnish. It's very securely framed. And that's pretty much all you can do on that. You might say, we're going to be putting it, you know, and we'll see if it's a couple usually talking, well, we'd like to put it over the fireplace in the mantel, immediately start to think what size is demand, ask them what's going to fit there, maybe you'll have something back in your studio as well. The best thing is some of the neck your guy great because you want to get him into studio, they can see what you have. Delivering a painting, if they want to is always a great thing. You pull up with a van full of paintings, you're there to deliver one. And you might want to casually say to the space, somebody's gonna put anything over there. I have something that might fit, you want to try to see it, you know, that no one knows what you have until you show them you know, so you have to you have to think ahead. You can't be too pushy. You don't want to lose their confidence in the fact that they believe you're a nice guy because, or gal, because when they're buying a painting from you, I find they're buying a piece of you. They like to meet the artist. Oftentimes they've seen your work here and then you're in a gallery, and then they get to meet you want to hear what you have to say in a funeral. I knew I liked this guy's work. Is this a nice guy? I like I'm not surprised he did this.

Laura Arango Baier: 29:05

How can you tell if a person is a prospective buyer,

Joseph Grieco: 29:09

ways to determine if someone is a prospective buyer or somebody who has bought in the past. They will walk into your space, whether it be a booth, or gallery. And they'll have a knowledgeable feel about they'll usually really look at they may mention to you I collect artwork right then and there. You know the dealing with somebody who's art savvy, that will tell you what to say to them. You know, there's another type of person who's a little timid, and you talk to them and you'll find out they've never bought a painting. And it's the most wonderful thing at the end of that sailed to feel that you say this is the first real

Unknown: 29:55

painting we've ever owned, and oftentimes a little baby when They have a new house.

Joseph Grieco: 30:02

And this old excited about this and you have a new client for the house. And that adds this wall space. And it's a great feeling wall around.

Laura Arango Baier: 30:15

What was New York City like in the 70s and 80s, for working artist?

Joseph Grieco: 30:19

Well, back in the 70s and 80s, the city was a different place, I must say. I was very grateful to have been there at that time. There was a lot of there was a lot of money around for one thing, people were in, particularly in the 80s. People had very expendable

Unknown: 30:45

incomes. That's what you need. So that was, that was a great thing.

Joseph Grieco: 30:50

There are a lot of companies, there are a lot of businesses that were successful, and they only did advertising. They all needed places, office spaces, it needed paintings for their corporate offices. That's another way to sell artists to somebody via the corporate art done that piece and Disney's collection in their corporate offices to pieces, in fact. So that was available. There was just a lot of energy going on. At that time. A lot of illustration, jobs were available still. Probably not so much. Now it was before the computer. So it was more organic. You can make as I said earlier, you can make up a portfolio. You can go see the boss, he saw exactly what you did. He can touch it, you can feel it for real. Today with with the computer. They're gonna tell you email us. I don't I couldn't do that myself. It's tough. I got it, I gotta say. So once again, young people have to really look, of course they have social media at their access. And they are far better at that than I am. I wish I was as good as they are at that. So I returned can learn something from them. You know, so in a way, it's one big ball of wax. And if it were it goes in a circle, it never really changes. They're always drawbacks. They're always rewards. And I think it's always going to be that way. And each young artist. Getting back to my original statement has to find a man true self. And go with that. And listen to it. And be willing to accept what God gave you. Don't never compare yourself. Deadly. I can tell you that right now. Never compare yourself to another artist. Be yourself. The minute you start comparing your your wit. It's gonna hurt you. Look at good artists. Ask yourself, why is that so good?

Unknown: 32:59

Learn from it. But never compare.

Laura Arango Baier: 33:02

Where can people go to see some of your work?

Joseph Grieco: 33:05

Anyone who would like to see my work? It's available on my website, which is quite a nice one. Put on my FASO. Fine Art Studio online. And it's Joseph de greco.com. That's JZBHP GRI eco.com. Please enjoy.

Laura Arango Baier: 33:25

We'd like to give a huge thank you to Joseph Grieco for sitting down with us and a huge thank you to the salmagundi club for allowing us to use their gallery in order to interview Joseph