Clint Watson: 0:00

When I tell you as a former gallerist if I were an artist starting today, I would probably just start from day one and make a go of it without galleries at all. I would just go I would sell everything direct.

Laura Arango Baier: 0:12

Welcome to the BoldBrush podcast where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. This week, I sat down with our CEO Clint Watson to discuss more marketing tips for artists coming from someone who has been a gallery owner in the past. And what he recommends artists should do today so that they could sell more work. Before hearing some of his tips. We wanted to know a little bit more about his background before working with FASO

Clint Watson: 0:35

before FASO buy was in the gallery business, I started working with the guys that owned the gallery here in San Antonio in 1989. We became a very well known Gallery in the early 90s. At that time, the primary way of promoting yourself as a gallery was magazine advertising. And I was in that business until 2005. And starting in 1990. In the mid 90s, I became one of the owners of the gallery, I became one of the partners,

Laura Arango Baier: 1:05

why did you get into the gallery business.

Clint Watson: 1:07

I've always been interested in art as a kid, I was always drawing and painting and thought I wanted to grow up to be an artist back that was my plan. And I probably would have done that. Except that one day I discovered computers. And it turns out I'm more of a programming geek than I am an artist. So when I was in college, I answered an ad in the newspaper to go work at this gallery because I thought it'd be fun to work at a gallery in college. When I left, they basically made me an offer to stay. And that's what led to the eventually becoming an art.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:43

What were you doing at the gallery that made us so successful there?

Clint Watson: 1:47

Well, I think there were, a lot of there was similar to now there was a lot of change happening at that time. And especially with the internet, really taking off starting in the mid 90s, mid to late 90s. I think honestly, they didn't want to lose their computer geeks. But also I was I had already worked my way up being the director of the gallery and proven myself and being able to make sales. And so I think those two factors, they saw that I had a good eye for art that I was good at making art sells and helping people find pieces that they wanted. And then also this entirely new sales channel was coming online, which tended to be, which tended to be where I made sales, we had several people in the gallery, but I tended to be the guy pioneering the website and the email and making sells more so than to local collectors. And I think they were beginning to understand for the first time that you're not constrained by the neighborhood, your gallery happens to be. And so that was I think that was one of the major contributors as to why they were opened to me becoming a partner,

Laura Arango Baier: 3:02

what was the price range at the gallery, and what was the highest price you've sold a painting for the range

Clint Watson: 3:06

that every sold in was for really small pieces, you know, high hundreds, you know, like, seven $800, to up to at the time I was there probably the most expensive pieces would be 70 $80,000 range, I think probably the most expensive one I can recall was in like approaching 100,000. And probably the average would be like $500,000 range, you know, sort of the average selling price for a medium size piece, you know. So when I say small, I'm thinking like eight by 10. As a medium sized piece, I'm thinking like 20 by 20, fours to 30 by 40 kind of size range and inches. And so you're guessing what was the most expensive piece I recall selling like personally, I believe the most one I sold was probably in the 40 to $50,000 range. And keep in mind this is 2020 twos. So a$40,000 piece is probably 60 $70,000 piece today when you account for inflation, right? And I think as far as the gallery overall, I think the most expensive piece I recall selling right, not me personally, but gallery was I believe 95,000

Laura Arango Baier: 4:26

What do you look for when noticing a prospective buyer?

Clint Watson: 4:29

So one of the big things in sales is learning how to qualify people. In fact, you know, in a way it's at its at 80 to 90% of it is that you don't want to waste a lot of your time with people who aren't buying. And that's not to be rude. It's not that they're not interested in people but it's that you're there to do a job and you only have so much time and attention. You can be polite to people who aren't going to buy but a trap people fall into is spending their time Talking to people who are fun to talk with. But those people aren't paying people. So you have to learn to be able to practice your situation. And when when you can figure out this person made a purchase, having said that, there really is no way. Rarely is there that you can tell looking. And this is another mistake most people make. I saw it in the gallery business all the time someone walks in, and they and they're wearing shorts, and their hair is long, right now. And people would say, Oh, that guy's not dressed nice or wearing a Rolex he's not qualified. Well, that's, that's total bullshit. Someone could walk in looking homeless, and turn around and be the most expensive value ever made. So you can't do it based on looks. But there are certain things you can look for. So one of the things that we did that I credit my former partners with this, which was pretty smart, was there's always there's always the question of do you display prices or not? Right? I'm always a big advocate that you do display prices, especially on your website. But the thinking of not having prices. And the reason some people don't want to have prices on their website or don't want to have prices displayed next to the pieces, I guess they think you know, someone's going to ask the price if they're serious, and then I get a chance to engage with them and qualified. Well, I've always felt like that's somewhat counterintuitive, because you're gonna get a lot of people asking the price that now you get to spend time with and there, it creates an awkward situation if they're interested, but it's way out of their price range, right, and also creates an awkward situation where people ask, and they're not really qualified. But you know what I mean, I feel like it, that not having the price can create an awkward situation. So what my partner's did, which I thought was a good compromise was we had the price on all the paintings, but they were kind of on a little tag that kind of stuck out, like from the edge of the painting, they basically they hung down behind the painting, but you could see the edge, and people would walk up and like pull it out and see the price. So on that tag, we had the title, the size, the medium, and the price, and if it was sold or not. And so that was the huge signal, right? If someone was came in the gallery, and they were looking at different paintings, and you could usually tell if they were interested in arts. So I'm sorry, let me back up a little more. So the first signal was, are they really interested or not? Right? Some people would come in and just kind of breeze through, you could tell art was not something that was that much of interest. Now, other people would come in, and they would look and stop in front of paintings and obviously becoming enthralled. Right. So that gives you one clue that this person is interested in art. And not only that they're interested in that painting that they've been staring at for the last five minutes. But then if they reached up and grabbed that little tag, and started looking at the prices of these different paintings that they like you knew right away, you started to know this guy is checking out priceless. Not only is he interested, he's also going to specific pieces and seeing how much they are. At that point, one of us could usually approach them and

Laura Arango Baier: 8:08

what the gallery owners do day in and day out to build their business.

Clint Watson: 8:12

All right, there's different kinds of galleries, some galleries are in high tourist high traffic locations. And traditionally, that's been where galleries are, what those guys do is very different than what our gallery did. What those guys do is they try to sell people right then and there because those are tourists. And as soon as they walk out that door, you probably never gonna hear from them again, right. And so you kind of get into high pressure tactics. Let's get these people in a closing room, you know, sort of the used car method of selling art, you know, here's the deal I can make you today. That's not what we did. What we did was much more akin what an artist needs to do to sell online today, which is what I did day in and day out. As people came in the gallery or called us on the phone from ads, or came to shows or contacted us through our website. I had huge lists of hours, and detailed notes. Each person of what artists they contacted us about what artists they've told me they've collected. That was one of the first things I would ask people when we got the first phone conversation they would call from an ad and ask about the piece ask how much it is. Once we started talking, I would say well what other artists do you collect? Or have you collected? Because that gives you a lot of clue into what types of art they like, which pieces they might be interested in. So I had detailed notes on each one of these people. And as new pieces came in, I would go through what what we have and basically match it up against these lists. Okay, we just got three new pieces by Kevin McPherson, who do I know that plein air landscapes Who do I know that has expressed an interest in Kevin McPherson in the past? Who's on my list has been waiting for right Kevin McPherson to come along. Right and so each day as I would go through these lists, make a list of who was most like likely pick up the phone and call them or if they were to be contacted by email, maybe I email. And so I'd say a good 50% of the day was picking up the phone and calling people leaving messages having conversations. And of course, each conversation led to more information, right? Even if they didn't buy that piece, I learned more about what they had been collecting and their state of mind. And if they were, if they were still in the market for a piece, if they were, you know, if anything had changed. There's one particular I can remember one particular guy that I followed up with every couple of months for three years until they finally started buying. And then he went on to be a regular collector,

Laura Arango Baier: 10:42

what is a regular collector? And what is their price point?

Clint Watson: 10:44

Oh, it was all over the, you know, some people were, and I'm using the term. Anybody who buys art, this is an interesting thing I've learned there's people that buy art and buy are regularly but they don't consider themselves are collectors. So in my mind, anyone who buys art is a Collector. Once they once you purchase your first piece of let's say original art, you're an art collector, but there's people that occasionally would buy, they Oh, but I'm not a real. So I'm using the term to mean anybody. But it was all over the place. Some people didn't have a lot of money, and they would buy, they buy $1,000 painting once or twice a year maybe. And other people, other people would buy $60,000 worth of art at one time, several times a year. They're at different stages, you know, like there'd be people that wouldn't buy a lot. And then suddenly they buy a new home. And now you're talking to them every month and they're buying multiple pieces. So you, you sort of have to be there all the time with people so that you're there when the timing is right.

Laura Arango Baier: 11:52

This podcast is brought to you by FASO. If you're listening to this, it's safe to say that you're probably an artist. And you've probably struggled like most of us have to sell your work online using some random website building platform that isn't even made for artists. If this sounds like you then check out faso.com forward slash podcast. Busso is an art marketing platform specifically designed for artists to help showcase your work. And not only that, it will also help you sell your work things too. They're really easy built in E commerce and marketing channels that help promote your work to over 48,000 collectors. On top of that, you'll also get access to marketing tips and help with your social media from top people in the industry. So if this sounds like a really great thing, and you want to take your artwork to the next level and sell as much as you can, then go check out faso.com forward slash podcast BoldBrush but also like to give a huge thank you and shout out to Chelsea classical studio for their continued support in this podcast. If you're interested in archival painting supplies handmade with a lot of patients, go check out their Instagram at CCS fine art materials. Should an artist not sell their work directly at gallery prices.

Clint Watson: 13:03

If you sold it in a gallery for 3000, the gallery gets 1500 and you get 15. But you could sell it for 1500 Or I guess conceivably less direct and sell more art come out ahead in the long run. So if I'm asked as me today, if I, if I was being asked this as a gallerist, I would say that's not a good idea because you're gonna burn your bridges with your gallery. And when I was a gallerist I was I was of the mindset that everything should sell for the same price everywhere. And I think if you want to be represented by galleries as an artist, you're going to have to be mindful. I mean, it's not going to go over well with a gallery if you expect them to sell that for 3000. And then they see it on your website for$1,000. Right. But this also gets to the point of what I've been trying to get across with a sovereign artist, less and less artists need gallery. In other words, that's kind of a huge overhead that went to the galleries, which is kind of a true, a dying or if not dying of a shrinking industry. So we live in a world where artists can sell direct, so why not sell it? Why not? Why not make it more affordable and easier for people to access your art? I mean, let's face it, even if you sold it for 2000 The collectors coming out 1000 ahead, which expands the number of people you can sell to and you still make more money as the artists so I guess that question whether I think that's a good idea or not depends on if you're really ready to burn your bridges with your galleries. But I tell you as a former gallerist if I were an artist starting today, I would probably just start from day one and make a go of it without galleries at all. I would just go I would sell everything direct.

Laura Arango Baier: 14:48

What are some tips for selling your work? As far

Clint Watson: 14:51

as tips for selling your art? Obviously I don't sit in artists studios all day and watch what they're doing. So a lot of them might be doing the things that I don't see that I don't think they're doing. But I feel like often people are going about it backwards. If that makes sense, somewhere, we have a post about the circles of art marketing, which in the sovereign Artist Club I'm going to be expanding upon, but kind of like staying in touch with your collectors all the time. So you're there when they're ready. collectors are also on a journey from not knowing who you are to being a good collector, the channels you use to sell to them, or at least put your work in front of them sort of change depending on where they are in the journey. And I feel like artists spend a lot of time worrying about the more public and crowded channels. And I feel like artists sort of don't have it weighted right off in terms of where they spend their time. So what I was explaining about being a gallerist, and obviously, this predates social media, but where I spent the vast majority of my time was going through my past collector list, figuring out who was the most likely prospect for the art I had today. And then calling those people or contacting them somehow, personally, let's say 80% of my time spent doing that,

Laura Arango Baier: 16:07

of that 80%, how much of that time lead to a sale conversion,

Clint Watson: 16:11

I don't know the percentage of time of the time spent reaching out to people lead to sales. But it's definitely it was definitely the activity that by far lead to the most sales. In other words, the activity of figuring out who was on my list who was most who was a good collector, or likely to become a Collector, and then calling those people getting images of the art in front of them. And having a conversation about that was the number one activity that led to sales, especially for sales to people that were not local, and physically there in the gallery, the rest of the time would have been talking to people in the gallery qualifying people, you know, talking to people who call from advertising. So that activity would probably be more similar what people would use social media for today, right. And so when I say I feel like a lot of artists are Miss allocating it, I feel like they're spending a lot of their time, their marketing time on the public social media piece, and not nearly enough of it on the contacting people, contacting people personally and nurturing them directly piece meeting. And so you have to like spend the appropriate amount of time in the appropriate place. It's not that social media isn't important it is it's one of the things that is enabling bypassing galleries is the fact you can go reach almost any problem, social media. But that's not I think artists think that I'm going to set up a website, and I'm going to post this on social media and I'm going to sell and this I've seen this before, even predating someone sets up a site on Squarespace. And then they canceled and because they didn't sell anything, and then they set up a site. And then they start posting on Etsy, and then they cancelled because they don't sell and then they set up the site with us. And then they cancelled because they don't sell anything. And they it's sort of like this, I call it this platform hopping, looking for the golden platform that's gonna sell your art, but there is no platform that's gonna sell your art, because the platform that's going to sell your art is you. And if you do these things we're talking about as the artist in a way, it doesn't really matter which platform you're showing the art. Because you're the magic piece, that salesman,

Laura Arango Baier: 18:22

how could you introduce new work to a previous collector,

Clint Watson: 18:25

one of the things I do often before I so sometimes, depending on the situation, if I knew someone was really hot for a particular artist, or they'd been waiting, or whatever, you know, or maybe I knew that really, really well, if a new host. Sometimes I would call them immediately and say, Hey, I got this new painting. I think you're going to be interested in this one, you know, here's the price range, you know, and is this some you know, am I off base? Is this something you interested in if it seemed like they work and usually if you have a relationship they would say hey, I trust you if you think I'm interested yeah, I'm interested. So at that point, I would put the piece on hold and then overnight them a photograph and then later in my gap years once the more common I just email them a photo right? If I wasn't assured then I would do it backwards. Like I would take a photo of the piece mailed in the photo and then follow up you know and and usually put a note in there like how you know, these pieces came down. I thought of you because you've told you told me you liked you told me you liked Scott Christiansen and you know and other types of plein air painters and you know this guy's from California does a lot of similar work, I thought if your collection and then it makes it easier to follow up with what I was going to be calling about. I kind of just but I will say I think this process would actually be easier for the than me a total stranger, you know, in other words, people got some of these people became my good friends and I was very close with them and it got to the point where I deal with some of them. Or I could call them and say this is the one and they'd say, Fine, here's my credit card. Like that's, that's, that's going to be even easier with the artists because people love to connect directly with an artist. I mean, if a gallerist can make a connection with someone, it seems like the artists to me seemed like the artists can have an even deeper connection, especially when it's someone who's really connected with that particular artists work. This is what's crazy to me how many collectors collect the same artists over and over? I mean, I can think of a guy that I saw, like 30 Kevin McPherson name. I mean, even I was thinking, Are you going to be other artists? You know, but, and he did, he collected all kinds of he loves plein air landscape, California type painting. But I mean, he just loved Kevin McPherson. That wasn't that uncommon. I mean, 30 was a little bit on the high side. But it wasn't uncommon to make multiple sales of the same artist at the same person. That's after you've built a trust. But I did have people that I built such a trust with that they would call me to get my opinion of paintings they were buying from other galleries, or and I know artists have done the same thing. I've talked to artists that have had collectors that will call them and get their opinion of other artists works. So it is possible for us directly.

Laura Arango Baier: 21:20

So what should artists do with a new painting?

Clint Watson: 21:23

I think this speaks what I was talking about before about people doing things. I think probably first inkling, I'm guessing, but I think most people's first inclination is posted on Instagram or posted on social media first, and I get it, you finish a piece you're excited. And that's super easy to do, right? I mean, it's now with phones. I mean, as soon as you take the photo, you could do it. But I I don't think that's the best way to go about it. I think the best way to go about it is take a photograph of the painting, figure out which of your past collectors or prospective collectors that you're close with is most likely to be interested, text them a photo, or email them a photo and say, Hey, I just finished this, I think this is one you would be interested in are you interested in first dibs on it, I absolutely think that's the first thing to do. Because you want to make those people feel special. And that's the whole reason they want. I mean, that's not the whole reason. But it's a big reason why people want to connect with artists. And that's essentially what I was doing. I had these lists for different artists of people that were interested in their work. And I had basically previously told them, you know, yeah, the one you called about is sold. But when another one comes in, I'll you'll be the first person I call. And that's what that's what I was doing. I mean, that was in a way that was a big part of the value that I was trying to bring to these people was to sort of get them inside access, right to different artists and different pieces. So I think, again, if you refer to the circles of art marketing idea, basically my circles of art marketing ideas, there's three marketing circles, and then your arts in the middle. The outside circle is the public awareness circle, the middle circle is people who have joined your audience, but may or may not have bought anything yet. And the inner circle is the people who are the people that for whatever reason, are really close to and most likeness. And so I feel like artists sort of when they have a piece of market, start with the outside one, which is posting it on Instagram, and then email it to their newsletter list your existing audience. And I don't know how many go to the inner circle idea. But that would probably come last. And I felt like you should work your way from the inside out, you have a new piece, contact the people most most likely to buy directly give them a gift they pass, then send it to your audience, which would be your email list people you can contact directly through, not necessarily a one on one channel, but it's a direct channel, and then give them second dibs, I guess. And then if they pass then posted on social media to draw in new people. The great thing about social media, it's easy, and you can reach a lot of people, the bad thing is you're competing with everybody else in the world. So it's very hard to go from i just posted this to anyone's down, draw them into your audience. And then from your audience, draw them into your inner circle. And then but the inner circle was where the magic happens. And something else I should probably say about that is even within that lit that inner circle list of clients that I maintained in any given year 80% of my sales generally came from about 20 people, not 20% but 20 people. So if you added up over the year, maybe I made I don't know I'm making this number, but say you made four or 500 phone calls, you know two or probably more phone calls than that. But let's say you contacted 500 people and some bought and some did. But 70 to 80% of my total sales came from 20% of the people at the top of that list and those 20 changed my it from year to year, I guess it wasn't always the same. So my point is, this is why you have like, you have to be consistent. You don't always know who the 20 are. And you can, I mean, if if I sold, you know, $500,000 worth of art in a year, or let's say $300,000 worth of art, and one of those sales was to the guy who bought multiple paintings and was worth$100,000, like one cell could account for, you know, up to a third of your total sales for the year. What if I didn't make that phone call? And I know it sounds like a lot, but it's really not, it's really not a lot to just contact that inner circle list. It's really pretty easy. You know, unless an artist has been around for 50 years and as 1000 people in their inner circle, how long does it take to personally email text or call? My point is, if you know what your different people in your inner circle are interested in, how long does it really take me to contact them and give them first steps