Clint Watson: 0:00

Well, it's a little strange, but it's also we've entered a time where the world is kind of digital first. Now, we used to live in the real world. We occasionally went online, but now we live online. That flow is getting reversed. So you know, buying digital art and then showing it on digital screens.

Francien Krieg: 0:18

That's so strange. Anyway,

Laura Arango Baier: 0:19

welcome to the BoldBrush podcast where we believe that fortune favors the bold brush. My name is Laura Arango Baier, and I'm your host. Recently, I sat down with Clint Watson, our CEO, and Francien Krieg, a Dutch painter who after reading one of Cliff's recent articles on N FTS, wanted to share her positive experiences and to dispel any myths that may have come up in the art world because of NF T's. So we all sat down and had a very enlightening chat about NFT's. What's true and what isn't. And up and coming cryptocurrencies, such as tezos, that have made it much more accessible for artists to sell and mint, their NF TS online. She also tells us a few tips on how to get started on NF Ts and also tips on how to start gaining collectors for your nfts. Hello, Clinton, Francien, how are you guys today?

Francien Krieg: 1:10

Yeah, well, you know, the world is a mess, but I'm fine.

Laura Arango Baier: 1:15

That's true. That's true. So we are gathered here today to talk about the very fantastic and booming world of NF Ts that has created such a huge divide. I'm one of those people who's still really confused about NF T's and I wanted to hear first, a quick explanation about what NF T's are just for our listeners

Francien Krieg: 1:37

means the non fungible token. And it's like a digital picture or whatever or little film even that can be on the blockchain. They call it on the big blockchain. That's in very short there as well. Maybe Clint has a more technical explanation of the word.

Clint Watson: 1:54

Well, I do have an article on what what it technically means. But we're going to burn a lot of time if we get into the definition on fungible and blockchain and all of that. But essentially, it's a way for owns a piece of digital information. And in the case of the art world, it usually means that someone owns a token on a blockchain that points to an image sounds much better.

Laura Arango Baier: 2:23

Yeah, and we can also link the article in the show notes. That way people can go check them out and educate themselves so that this episode makes a little more sense to them. Now that we've got that covered, and I will be including those links in the show notes, I wanted to hear a little bit more about what you guys have been talking about in terms what Tasos is and how this is opening doors to artists, Clint, if you can enlighten us?

Clint Watson: 2:47

Well, this conversation started because I wrote a series of articles about NF Ts and the ones we're going to link to the first one was explaining what an NF t is, in technical terms. The second one was how they're being used in the art world because NF T's are also used for non artwork purposes. And kind of arguing both sides, you know, because the opinions about NF T's in the art world range from its complete snake oil and a waste of money to it's the next big thing that is changing the entire art world for for the better, right. So I kind of presented both sides, my feeling about why I think there is something to it. And then the third one was was the one that Francie and responded to, which was I was kind of recommending, you know, whether you should consider selling your own art is NF T's are not and I was basically say my position was you know, unless you really know what you're doing. Maybe you should hold off a little bit, but I was speaking mostly about NF T's minted on the Ethereum blockchain. And then Ian reached out to me and I hope I'm saying your name correctly on Twitter and said, Well, I really would like to share my experience about tezos. Because there's a great community of artists, and it's been very positive, and it doesn't have a lot of the problems that the Ethereum blockchain does have. And then Hi suggested, Why don't we have that discussion with Laura so that this can become a podcast episode.

Laura Arango Baier: 4:11

I'm really glad to have you both here talking about this because I was also really confused about NF Ts and Aetherium. And like you had mentioned in your articles, it's really inaccessible for a lot of people in that way. Like how do you get Aetherium and then the gas fees and this but I wanted to hear more about tezos and Francine if you don't mind giving us a bit of your experience, as you mentioned, you've been doing this for was it?

Francien Krieg: 4:35

Well, you know, I also started with Aetherium so I also know a little bit of that world but you know, you have to be open to get advice from from people who are have more experience and I discovered was such a worm community from the start that I made a lot of friends very quickly and people were very helpful and so yeah, ready. I think after one month I discovered the tehsils community like everybody, I also got the feeling there was a lot of scamming going on at atrium I even had also did experience myself. But I also heard from a lot of colleagues that have very bad experience with Ethereum and tehsils, is very much a lot of traditional artists active in that community. And that is also a big difference with the whole atrium NFT world where it's a lot about collectibles. And that put everything on one pile sort of speak saying the collectibles and the digital art, it's all in on the same platforms and a tehsils community is Yeah, more focusing on traditional art, but but also a lot of digital art, actually. And then this is another crypto coin. And Aetherium is crypto and Aetherium is of course more stable and already existing for a much longer time and has developed itself in a very good way. You know, it's worth much more than a few years ago, like Bitcoin almost and say sauce is more a new cryptocurrency but also it's very promising. So people are very optimistic about where the tasers is going. And actually, at the moment, it's dropped a lot. But if you look at a year ago, you see that it's through the year, it's going like up and down, up and down. And I'm sure it will go up again, even during the day. It's it's fluctuating a lot. And I think that is the same with Aetherium. Probably, I don't know. Yeah. No, it's not that for environments. For me, that was maybe a big part of my decision to focus more on tehsils. I felt a little bit bad when doing the block on the blockchain with Aetherium. Because of all these super computers lose using a lot of gas. And also it's it cost a lot of money to mince the pieces on Aetherium. As an artist.

Clint Watson: 6:46

I just wanted to add your original question about what's the difference? One way to think about each blockchain is if you if you loosely think about a blockchain as a big database. And don't even worry about for a moment that it's decentralized, and the mining and all of that. But there's bitcoin is one database, a theory is one database. tezos is one database. And each coin is a big database. And so your question of what's the difference in Aetherium, and tezos? Is they don't talk to each other because they're separate databases. So you kind of have to pick which one is most appropriate for your use case for Bitcoin. That's money for Aetherium. It's different types of applications. I don't know if tezos was designed for art, but it seems to be used a lot for that purpose. Yeah, that

Laura Arango Baier: 7:32

makes perfect sense. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of like the Euro versus the dollar. They don't except they know different things affect each other. Yeah.

Clint Watson: 7:39

Or it's kind of like one website versus another. Right? Are you going to list your art on Etsy, or you gonna list it on Saatchi art? You know, they don't talk to each others. So you sort of you have to pick your community upfront?

Laura Arango Baier: 7:51

Oh, that's a good way of saying it. And then I did want to ask you, Clint, because in your second article, you did talk about at the very end, you mentioned holding off on NF TS until you know, you gain some popularity as an artist or one of your pieces goes viral. So for someone like me, for example, I have yet to go viral or have any pieces that are big, but maybe I'm interested in NF T's what would you suggest.

Clint Watson: 8:15

So I'm coming from the tech world. And I see a lot of things built on top of Aetherium. And the people that I've seen being successful tend to be people that know how to build a big following and know how to get things to go viral. And the ones I've seen that have done really well are the ones who promote an image, say on social media first, and they get that image out there. And then they meant the NFT of the image. And there's already a demand for that image. That's why I was actually kind of excited when Francine reached out to us because she's talking about the support of the tezos community. And maybe it's different in you know, maybe I'm hoping she's gonna say because it sort of has a community of traditional artists, maybe you don't need to have such a big following on social media or be an expert on getting things to go viral to have some success with it. Right.

Laura Arango Baier: 9:05

Right. Tell us a little bit about your experience with Well,

Francien Krieg: 9:09

yeah, you know, I'm already working as an artist for 20 years. So I did already have a group of followers on Instagram, Facebook, I'm not so active anymore about Instagram. I think I'm now at 17,000 and a half, something like that. So I thought okay, so I know I already have a good start for starting in the NFT. But not the place to be for NFT is Twitter. That is the most important place to connect to other NFT artists. And there I had no experience I had zero followers. So actually, I had to start all over again looking for new followers and it's going really slowly I have now now a little more over 2000s But you know I'm doing quite well. The big advice to you is start showing yourself on Twitter in the in the NFT Realty because stuff as soon as you start putting the hashtags NFT. And yeah, you have to start low to get some goodwill from the community start low on your tastes or what you're asking in the beginning, your additions should not be too small, but also not too large, like not a few 100.

Laura Arango Baier: 10:16

Here, Francine is using the word addition. What she means by addition is that it can be comparable to having more than one print of the same art piece, you are selling multiple prints of one piece, though, in this case, it is NF Ts.

Francien Krieg: 10:31

That's also the nice thing of tehsils that you can offer your NF T's in addition, and on Aetherium. I think it's also possible, but you don't see this very often. It's always a single addition. And the gas fees is like, like almost nothing. Yeah. And objects, I think is the most popular place. But there's, at the moment, a lot of new platforms developing on Tasos, but also on different kind of on the future.

Clint Watson: 10:56

You said, can you explain a little bit about what you mean when you say, keep your auditions low?

Francien Krieg: 11:02

Yeah, well, if you're really, if you're just starting out, then your audition should not be too low, because you need to spread your NFPs and find your circle. But as soon as you have like a big group of followers, you should make the addition smaller. Yeah, slowly raise your ratio prices and all the leftovers, you have to burn them. That is also very important. It's like a question and demands thing. You have to create scarcity of your work. Well, that's just my advice I got from colleagues and it works really well.

Clint Watson: 11:34

If I understand correctly, by addition, you're talking about you admit an NFT on the tezos blockchain and it would be you might have an addition of 10 NF T's of that particular image

Francien Krieg: 11:47

exactly. Like they were prints,

Clint Watson: 11:49

right? Right. It's cept. On paper. One is a token on the blockchain. And then if they don't sell you destroy, you burn the rest of

Laura Arango Baier: 12:00

here, when we're referring to burning NFT we're simply meaning that your NFT is transferred to a wallet address on by nobody. In the case of online crypto and coins. An online wallet is simply where you keep your NF Ts and your Aetherium or your tezos. By putting this NFT in a wallet that is owned by nobody, you are basically making the NFT unusable, though it still exists. In this case, this causes your NF T's that are not burned to become more valuable since they are more scarce.

Francien Krieg: 12:34

Yeah, because I had a moment that I had a lot of NF t's on salts, and there was not a lot of movements and so it was a collector also is damaged double oh seven Xiang and he advised me to burn all the leftover editions and do that every time when you offer a new edition. It's not sold out when within one or two days just burn the leftovers. It will make people eager is like you playing a little bit with the people also.

Clint Watson: 13:03

I do have a follow up question though. I may have misunderstood when when an artist is first starting out with tezos. Francine, are you saying they should they should start with one of one editions? Or they should start with higher editions?

Francien Krieg: 13:17

Yeah, high editions? Yeah. Stuck in high editions? Because first the work needs to spread itself the community.

Clint Watson: 13:25

And I think this is is this one reason why you need to be on Twitter. Because what I've learned what I've noticed with Twitter is that much easier to get something to go viral on Twitter. And for people to spread. The minute is on Instagram, for example. On Instagram, you can't regrab something you can't just click a button. But I've NFP collectors buy something. They post it on Twitter, they they retweet the original post by the artists and it tends to be able to read very quickly.

Francien Krieg: 13:55

Actually, I noticed that on Instagram, there's no interest at all in MFTs. I think none of my followers on Instagram showed any interest. I posted a couple of times something about NFT. And that got the least response compared to my normal posts. So it really comes

Laura Arango Baier: 14:11

down to people not really understanding what NF T's are. And the majority of people on Instagram, I'd say that they're on the side of they don't care about NF T's or they think they're a scam or like It's like Clint said

Francien Krieg: 14:24

that's why for me, it's also important to tell a little bit about my positive experience because not only from Clint the article which I read, but it is all the time on television programs. It's only negative it's only about a tealium about collectibles about scams, and I was a little fed up with that. Because my experience was it's only good really is only good. This podcast

Laura Arango Baier: 14:48

is brought to you by FASO. If you're listening to this, it's safe to say that you're probably an artist and you've probably struggled like most of us have to sell your work online using some random website building platform that isn't even made for artists. If this sounds like you, then check out faso.com forward slash podcast. FASO is an art marketing platform specifically designed for artists to help showcase your work. And not only that, it'll also help you sell your work things too there really easy built in E commerce and marketing channels that help promote your work to over 48,000 collectors. On top of that, you'll also get access to marketing tips and help with your social media from top people in the industry. So if this sounds like a really great thing, and you want to take your artwork to the next level, and sell as much as you can, then go check out faso.com forward slash podcast BoldBrush but also like to give a huge thank you and shout out to Chelsea classical studio for their continued support in this podcast. If you're interested in archival painting supplies handmade with a lot of patients, go check out their Instagram at CCS fine art materials.

Francien Krieg: 15:55

As an artist, mostly you are working a lot alone. It's like very solo occupation. Artists among each other are not always the type of people who wish the best for each other. You know, it's like a lot of competition going on. And I feel that it's completely not there on Twitter, because we support each other. I'm even buying a lot of art from colleagues. Now. It's the buyers are I think, maybe 1/3. Maybe more even are the artists.

Clint Watson: 16:23

I noticed that. Yeah. You know, before in FTS, their Twitter was a desert for artists. And as someone active on Twitter, I'm loving interacting with so many artists suddenly because they're doing NF T's. But that's been the biggest change I've noticed too, is that so often they're collecting each other's work, which is just fantastic.

Francien Krieg: 16:44

That's fantastic. And it's also very sincere. It's not like just an act to be liked to anything. It's because you know that we are also passionate about art. And so you find your own group in that way because you connect with people that you like, or that you appreciate. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 17:01

Communities.

Francien Krieg: 17:02

Exactly. Yeah. Even Jeremy Lipkin, because we're really looking for high quality arts that that also, you know, the better artists, if I can say like that. They want to come to the state of Texas community. And I think the bigger it gets, the more it will grow, the more collectors it will attract. And even someone like Jeremy Lipkin, he made the step to the tasers community and had his first tehsils even they made a little surprise party where I dropped party by Lawrence fuller. He is like very, very important person in the tasers community. He's British actor also. But he's also an artist. And he's doing a lot for the communities or he's organizing a lot of Twitter spaces. That's also an important part. And I don't know if you heard of those Twitter spaces. No, no. Yeah. So

Clint Watson: 17:57

it's Twitter's clone of clubhouse if you remember club Yes. Yeah, club has the audio chat rooms kind of

Francien Krieg: 18:04

exactly. Yeah, I think more that clubhouse was in the beginning. Also quite important for NFT. I went there a couple of times, but for me, it was not so not so interesting. You have discord groups is also important platform. There's a lot of NFT artists very active in discord groups, but for me, I think the Twitter spaces are the are the best. They happen a lot.

Laura Arango Baier: 18:29

Wow. I actually have a question in terms of what if you're selling NF T's like say you have 10 editions, but only one of the NF T's includes the physical piece like how how does that work,

Francien Krieg: 18:41

you know, you can set your own rules with the whole NFT thing this is so exciting about it you can you can do the deal that fits with how you like it, you can do the physical work can do a single addition with the physical work you can sell. Like the highest offers gets the physical science print, for example that I see that also a lot so you can set your own rules it's and you notice things are still changing a lot. So it's not like there's just one way the way I'm talking about it is only my experience and I'm sure it is another artist has completely different experience and and is also successful with it. So she's also have to try out things discover, because it's all still in the children's shoes. I don't know it is the same expression in English.

Laura Arango Baier: 19:27

It makes sense. It makes sense. It's still very early days. I mean, it's only a year.

Francien Krieg: 19:33

Yeah, I think so. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 19:36

Because of people.

Francien Krieg: 19:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah, let's exist a little longer.

Clint Watson: 19:39

Could you explain maybe like what's involved for some artists who hasn't ever done it before? What's involved in getting started and you know, going from going from knowing nothing to have minted their first NFT on tezos.

Francien Krieg: 19:54

Yeah, well, it took me I think two weeks to get started you On

Laura Arango Baier: 20:00

here Francine is going to tell us a little bit about her cryptocurrency Wallet. So a cryptocurrency wallet is an app that allows cryptocurrency users to store and retrieve their digital assets. Another thing that's really important to note is that not every wallet handles certain crypto coins as well. So for instance, you might have a certain crypto wallet for your Aetherium versus another crypto wallet for your tezos.

Francien Krieg: 20:24

You know, if I have my Jampol wallets in my browser, I have my meta mask Wallet. So those are digital wallets that connects to the platform. That is also your sort of your identity connects us or taze us? Yeah, no, that's for a Tyrian. Yeah, Metamask is for a theory are still also on a theory. And that's not so active. Because too much money to mean. It's crazy.

Laura Arango Baier: 20:48

Yeah. It is also vital to note that when you are minting an NFT it simply means that you are creating an annuity and in order to create one, you decide what cryptocurrency you're going to use, and this is what's going to dictate the cost of minting. So for instance, if you were to mint an NFT, using Tasos, at this moment, it would cost about 30 cents in US dollar, versus if you were going to mint in Aetherium, which will be much much more expensive. Another important thing to note is that once you do mint and NFT, this is also going to dictate the platform that you are on. So if you're trying to sell NF T's using Tasos, you would have to be on a platform that functions with tezos. If you're going to sell NF T's using Aetherium, then maybe something like open sea or a different platform might be better. So wait so on the website for tasers are like the website where say during Jeremy looking drop his NF Ts, how do you just sign up and then from there, it tells you how to get a wallet, you know, like a digital wallet or I don't even know the terms properly there yet,

Francien Krieg: 21:52

you have to connect your digital wallets. So that was for me the most difficult part of how to set up this digital wallet because you have like very complicated technical stuff. It will get easier in time, I think. And maybe because you know, I'm 48 Maybe I'm from a different generation and the younger generation, they understand it quicker than I do. Because it took me a long time and a lot of cursing was going on here because then you have to remember like a secret phrase that's very important to write down the secret phrase, but you cannot have it on the computer because you know. So that's also very, a little bit complicated that was from but that's the first step. And that's the digital wallet that connects you to the platform to your profile. So every time every time if I go to my object page, I have to be connected to my temple wallet. And yeah, so if you want to meet a piece that also goes through the wallet

Clint Watson: 22:54

and does it cost on tasers, does it cost any money at all two minutes okay, sit

Francien Krieg: 22:59

minimal minimal. I think maybe one tehsils if you want to create a new collection, that's cost one tassels and one tasers is $3. No, three and a half dollar or something like that. And and just listing works is like a few cents. Okay. That's so nice about this, I think, by comparison,

Clint Watson: 23:22

like what are gas fees on Aetherium.

Laura Arango Baier: 23:24

So to explain a little a gas fee is basically like the that you pay in order to mint. And it's almost like if you were trying to cash up from an ATM and the ATM charges you a certain fee, say $3 $5. This same thing applies to when you're minting an NFT.

Francien Krieg: 23:43

Yeah, you pay hundreds of dollars to just list the work on Aetherium. And this will cost you hardly anything that makes it much easier to start using it. And you know, there's a lot of options you can do collaborations that is very popular in the tasers community I think in ATL you may be also but I don't have experience in Aetherium doing collaborations. But you know, I've done like four collaborations now with other artists, you just make an artwork together. And these platforms makes it also possible to split the royalties that you each get 50% of the royalties, because that's the node maybe the very interesting part of the NFT that you can have an after sale, I sell out my whole addition. And then it goes to the secondary markets. You can define you can set your own royalty fee to in 10% 25%. So you know if you're a mother spirit, so you will see why I just take 10% you think no I deserve more. You put it on 25% It's you can make these choices yourself. That's very nice. I

Laura Arango Baier: 24:57

think I think that's the other thing that I had When I first started reading about NF T's, that's what drew me towards them. Because when you have a physical piece, and you sell it once, you never get more money from it. But within a few years, you do get those royalties. So I think that's one of the attractive things. Yeah. It's like, if it gets auctioned off, you get royalties from it. Yeah, like and so the base rate, you don't get anything?

Francien Krieg: 25:22

Yeah. So yeah, it puts the power back in the hands of the artist, because it's always will be connected to the Creator. And that is really, I think, such a big improvement compared to the more old fashioned worlds with, I mean, I still like galleries. But you know, I'm doing less and less with that, to be honest. It's also started with the whole the COVID period, of course, that it was more common, getting more complicated to actually go to a gallery. So everything is happening more online. And now this NFT adds up to that situation and makes it so much more interesting. I think for the artist, I hear so many stories of artists who now can make a living from from their art, they first had a day job and they had they can cancel their day job and just live from art. How cool is that? Yeah, that's wonderful.

Clint Watson: 26:13

I have a question about from your perspective, as someone who's been doing it a few months, if someone were to get started with tasers and I realized this, the answer to this will vary widely by artist. But what do NFT sell for on tasers typically?

Francien Krieg: 26:29

Well, that all depends, I think of the quality of the art because I can tell you that Jeremy Lipkin, it was his Remainer was his first time on tehsils. And he was selling for between 70 tassels per piece to 120, something like that. And that is you know, if you're a newcomer in the tasers community that's extremely high. Normally you start like with I started also two to three pesos per piece, something like that. And that is so do the calculation. And the higher the addition, the more you can earn from it. But if

Clint Watson: 27:07

you retailers would be like seven to $10. And Jeremy's would be like three to 500.

Francien Krieg: 27:14

Yeah, per piece. And he had 25 pieces. So it was he made a good deal of work that he probably sold already long time ago for big amounts, right and under and I bought a work event from Germany on the secondary market because it was in the middle of the night when he had his drop party. So I went to bed, and I placed my offer it was 44 tables. And I was like praying, please let it be enough, because he was only accepting the top offers and yet he had like 60 or 70 offers I don't remember even. And I woke up next morning and discovered that my offer had been too low. So the next option for me was to buy 450 tassels. But yes, I wanted to have it. So I bought it's my highest about what I spend on the end of the sale now.

Laura Arango Baier: 28:06

Yeah, so it's almost like eBay where you you like you auction it's almost like a little auction or something or people give you an offer. And you can either say yes or no. Yeah,

Francien Krieg: 28:16

yeah. But that's only works if you're really popular. Like Jeremy Lipkin. Yeah, and I do see you with a few artists that will sometimes I have like very good, popular work that sells out also in one hour of the like that but I didn't have that they were no making offers that is going over my asking price. I didn't have that pleasure yet. I'm just starting, knows where it is where it's going.

Clint Watson: 28:45

Do people typically offer the original art with the nfts? Or that's

Francien Krieg: 28:51

hardly hardly that is. I don't see that. Well, I see it sometimes if you artists do it. Those are the artists who really are coming from the traditional art world working with galleries. Daniella Villiers, maybe, you know, her work is also quite popular while she's doing that. She's offering but she's doing also on Aetherium which is also very good in selling on Aetherium she has done a good cessful

Clint Watson: 29:21

she's done a good job at getting attention on Twitter.

Francien Krieg: 29:25

Yeah, definitely.

Clint Watson: 29:27

We didn't and quote tweeted and I mean people definitely I mean she she supports other artists too, but I see her work. Yeah, time.

Francien Krieg: 29:36

Yeah, well, she's a nice person as well. And I'm even going to do a collaboration with her soon. So that's I'm looking forward to that. And I have I have one of her works also, you know, everybody can become a Collector suddenly that is also so funny. You know, before the artists were like the poor bastards little bit and Now we are all collectors that it makes itself accessible for everybody. Yeah, to share that passion for art. So

Clint Watson: 30:08

you mentioned you bought one of Jeremy lip jeans and fts. So, from the collector side now, what do you do with those? Like, what are you going to do it? I see you well, before you look at it, do you pull it up? Object every now and then. Yeah. Yeah,

Francien Krieg: 30:27

I understand that question. Like, what do you do with it? So there are a lot of collectors they doing this stuff? Virtual gallery thing, they make this you notice this apps? Yes, yes. So you can have the space filled with your collection. And then and then share this gallery with everybody and be proud of of your collection, it's a little bit sometimes also a little bit showing off to each other. Look what I have. That's also part of it, you can put on the secondary market, I'm doing that a lot. And then for a much higher price that I put Jeremy Lipkin for 500 tehsils. Now, you know if I can sell for that price, I will feel good about it. I love his word. But if I can sell for 500, it's also doing a lot of business looking at things from a business point of view. And of course, you have maybe like the really precious works that you say I will never sell that there's many collectors, especially the single editions. That's why because I had a lot of requests lately from collectors asking, do you have single editions? Can I buy single edition. And of course, it's an honor. And it's always nice when someone wants to buy your work. But for me, it is a little less interesting to sell a single edition because there will not be any after sales on the secondary market. Because the single edition is the people always they keep it. They want to keep it interesting. Yeah.

Clint Watson: 31:52

Now imagine these 3d gallery spaces in the future when there's true virtual reality, right, the collector has a virtual reality gallery of their NFT collection. And you

Francien Krieg: 32:02

can just walk in the space and touch it and see the structure and everything. But you know, the crazy development that will be I don't know somewhere next year, I was asked also to join in some very popular gallery. That's a painting of mine, they will project again on the screen and there will be an exhibition instead of just hanging the painting. No, she will show my painting on the screen in the gallery for me that is so bizarre. I think. What the space does elements Yeah. Well, I can understand from the digital art, I can understand it if you have like some animated art, which is moving and you feel the gallery with this kind of art. But so yeah, to hang in the gallery, the screen with the painting on it. That is I think, a little strange in my eyes. But okay. It's what is its development at the moment? Well, it's

Clint Watson: 32:52

a little strange. But it's also we've entered a time where the world is kind of digital first now, right? Yeah, or endemic. And everybody's zooms now. And everybody gets food delivered you live. We used to live in the real world. We occasionally went online, but now we live online, we go yeah, that flow is getting reversed. So you know, buying digital art and then showing it on digital screens. That's so strange anymore, especially from a generation who grew up on video games, right? That kind of makes sense. The thing I hope maybe it happens is I remember when people first got into, you know, they stopped wearing watches, because they carried phones or young people didn't wear then I knew people that started, they started with the Apple Watch because they had the iPhone. And I've known a number of people through that. And then actually started getting interested in physical watches and started buying a Rolex or whatever. And I'm hoping maybe this attention that NF T's is bringing to the art world will lead people to get more interested in original art, they may start with it, then they're interesting artists. And as that interest grows, we've all been looking for a way to get more people interested in art. And it seems like maybe finally have one right.

Francien Krieg: 34:08

Now you have a good point there, I think work that way. You can reach a bigger younger audience now through the FFTs to get interest in art. And interest in the physical works will always be there. And that's get around. Go around. That's no

Clint Watson: 34:24

more valuable. I see. Yeah. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 34:27

Yeah, it's almost like that boom. That happened for a while where people started buying vinyls, again, because they were tired of mp3 files or like I wanted, like raw audio. I feel like that's what's gonna happen because one of the things that you know, as an artist that I enjoy about a painting is when I see it in person, and I see the brushstrokes and I see everything cameras can't really capture that properly. They can't really capture the color properly. So I feel like it is exactly like Clint says it's going to flip where everyone's going to have the online stuff but a lot more people are going to be really interested in the flow. physical stuff again.

Francien Krieg: 35:01

Yeah, it's true.

Clint Watson: 35:02

Or maybe people who start with the with the digital stuff because it's more affordable, right? And then as their career or whatever progresses, they think, Well, you know, I could actually buy a physical painting. And that's, that's the part that always confused some of the bigger headline in FTEs. I kept digging, you know, for the prices people pay if someone's paying, you know, 100,000 300,000 a million dollars for an NFT. I can't think and you could buy a lot of paintings for that price range.

Francien Krieg: 35:33

Yeah, but that's the crazy thing. That's what I see is happening is that sometimes people actually do pay more money for an NFV death for the physical that is so strange from Yeah, that's strange development. Yeah.

Clint Watson: 35:47

That may just be the hype that it is experiencing at the moment, you know, like sometimes, yeah, just you compare to one is worth more than another when clearly the one that's worth less has a more promising future, you know?

Francien Krieg: 36:03

Well, you know, the on the blockchain, it will stay there forever. Somehow I had this I had this idea that if my house will burn down with all the paintings in it, I will still have my work on the blockchain. And that is reassuring feeling.

Clint Watson: 36:18

Very true. Yeah, that's interesting. Take this sort of flips, conventional wisdom, you know, on its head, right. Because you're used to thinking of what's digital being the thing that can disappear and what's physical being the thing. But yeah, you could point right. Yeah, your house burned down and all that artists still there on the blockchain. Yeah, exactly.

Laura Arango Baier: 36:39

So always, are still there are still dangers to having stuff digital, though, because I did read an article maybe like a couple months ago of someone who got hacked, and other nfts got stolen. So yeah. Oh, yeah. Have that happen?

Francien Krieg: 36:56

Oh, yeah. Yeah, definitely. And also the whole digital money, it gives me also a headache because I had a couple of times, I've got a My, my password or my lock in code. And then you have to have your secret phrase, I couldn't find it. You know, I'm big. I'm always very chaotic. And then I thought I lost all my money. But this this can happen. But I bought some extra device called a ledger, and you dislike a hard, hard wallet? Well, it's like a separate device connected to an app again. So every time if I have like, bigger amount I put from the one wallet to another wallet. But even that, yeah, it's also fragile can also be scammed or not. Yeah, what is safe in life, I don't know. Everything is goes with some danger. But this is also just very new. And I'm curious where it will all go. It will be easier. Because you have the bubble pals. I don't know if you know, that is also a new platform that was already existing as like social media platform. But now they also are offering the NF T's. And that is not with the crypto coin that is just with you can pay with your credit card. So that's also a new development

Clint Watson: 38:11

that that was the goal we had if we build a platform. Okay. Yeah. And we integrate with your website automatically. Oh, yeah. Because I think that for the collector side, the whole getting a wallet, the passphrase, that that currently is a big obstacle to expanding the number of collectors.

Francien Krieg: 38:31

Yes, true. But yeah, maybe you will miss out a little bit to be part of this community feeling on Twitter. But it's such an important part of the whole NFT experience. I think,

Clint Watson: 38:42

imagine how cool it would be Twitter integrated NF T's into the platform.

Francien Krieg: 38:47

Yeah. Well, you can start your Twitter spaces. As far as FASO can start Twitter spaces can be more involved on Twitter. Yeah, definitely. Work. I will I will use it for sure. becomes an option, right? No,

Clint Watson: 39:03

I met Imagine if Twitter made it where you could MIT and NFT inside. Yeah.

Laura Arango Baier: 39:11

Connect people turning their tweets into NF Ts and suddenly

Francien Krieg: 39:18

Yeah, well, probably that's that's already happening. Sometimes you see the most crazy NF T's coming by now also, of course there and say to the children, you can also make an NFT and then make some strange little film clip. Yeah, but that's a little waste of the space. I think I think it should be it should be something should be art.

Clint Watson: 39:38

Have there been any stems or fakes or problems in the tezos community with the NF T's?

Francien Krieg: 39:45

Not what I heard of not one. Most of the material

Clint Watson: 39:49

I've heard had been on a scenario. But I guess the biggest scam is when people are tricked into into letting people get access to their wallet and then they lose their NF T's.

Francien Krieg: 39:58

Yeah, well again on tasers. I have not heard one bad experience regarding scams or anything, nothing. It's such a peaceful community actually, you know, even now with the whole, okay. Everybody jumps right on it and doing all kinds of offering nfts to support the ocarina. I think that's, that's yeah, it warms my heart every day, I made a lot of new friends. But you know, you have to have the time to be active on the Twitter. That is the one important thing. We didn't really talk about that it takes a lot of time bill to be part of this community. And yeah,

Laura Arango Baier: 40:37

I wanted to ask about that. Because I literally, I have a Twitter, I don't even know why. But is it I don't use it. What would you suggest someone like me was absolutely like zero? How can I start getting involved? As an artist on Twitter? Just show

Francien Krieg: 40:55

yourself? Are you active on Instagram? Yes. So it's the same the same way. But it's much more quick. You know, you have to react, you post something, and you get immediate reaction back. And the best thing is to react again to people who are react, so you have to have quick response all the time. And that is what's taking so much time. I have to be honest, I'm putting less hours into painting for the last four months. But I feel like I have to invest in that at the moment and build up. And then if I have maybe like maybe 5000 followers on Twitter, maybe I can, you know, put less time minutes. But for now, I need to have more followers to be more successful, I think. Yeah. So just show yourself you know, I didn't know Twitter at all. I didn't know. Especially I have this this this people saying you can shell you work. You heard of the term Schilling?

Clint Watson: 41:51

Yes.

Francien Krieg: 41:54

And then they say, I will buy your work and what so I started, okay, that will be great. Thinking they said to me, I didn't get it at all, like who was responding to whom read the Twitter, I could not understand at all, I was such a clumsy, clumsy person. So now Now I get it. But it took me like, I think, a few weeks to understand Twitter. But again, that's probably the generation thing. Yeah, just you have to be very short in your text. That is, of course, typical. Twitter only allows like that many characters and that for me, compared to Instagram, where I can really tell something about a work or something about your thoughts. That is what I'm missing a little bit on Twitter. And I think the audience in general is very young people. If you go a little bit deeper into subject matter, you know, you have to be like, a little bit hip and groovy in your way of talking. It's a different language. But as soon as you start on Twitter, you will you will see how other people do it. And you you will learn and of course, you have to just you have to, of course be yourself. I'm not saying you have to then suddenly be someone else. But it is because it's everything is so quick, need to grab someone's attention with no way of giving telling the message cannot be very boring. And your message. You know, I mean, I do I understand on

Clint Watson: 43:22

Twitter is is different than other social networks. But I think for this for NF T's especially, Twitter tends to be a lot more tech savvy people than other social networks. And so I can see why the NF Ts and Twitter crowd mix because it's a very, you know, NF Ts and blockchain are a very tech thing. It's very interesting and new right now. So that intersection of technology and art makes the most sense on Twitter. It's a little different than Instagram, like to see people, these artists on Instagram with 100,200 500,000 followers, that is a very difficult number to reach on Twitter. You know, unless you're getting unless you're somehow buying followers or getting followers in some kind of fake way. Your followers on Twitter tend to be a lot more engaged because I because things move so fast and they can comment on any part of like yeah, oh difference on Twitter between a reply and a post. I guess that's the biggest difference when insert definitely then people reply under that posts on Twitter you post and then someone replies but that new reply is also a standalone tweet. Right?

Francien Krieg: 44:34

Exactly. That'll show me the confusion at the beginning that I didn't get that

Clint Watson: 44:39

it's confusing in the beginning but once you get it boils up for for me for every i every other social network feels backwards to me after after you get it.

Francien Krieg: 44:49

Yeah, exactly. Well, I do enjoy also Twitter a lot. I'm not so active on Instagram anymore, to be honest. Yeah. Twitter is completely Something on its own, but

Clint Watson: 45:02

can amplify your posts because they can read. They can repost it and they can read. Yeah.

Francien Krieg: 45:07

Yeah. The retweets. Yes. And the quote that tweets, yeah, that just called me tweets.

Clint Watson: 45:12

That can't happen. Right? Nobody can just read your heart so easily.

Francien Krieg: 45:17

Well, you can you can you can share, I think, Instagram that happens, because it's so common,

Laura Arango Baier: 45:22

it's easy. Yeah, it's easy.

Clint Watson: 45:25

You have to somehow grab the image and then re upload it. I mean, it can be done more work.

Francien Krieg: 45:31

But I hear a lot of colleagues complaining a bit about Twitter that it's addictive. So that is also it's the nice part. Now that it's so quick, a lot of responsibility. Yeah, it can get pretty addictive. So you have to be careful for that. It can be so time consuming. It has to really I have to switch off my computer. If I start painting or else I will be distracted all the time. You have to be careful for that. That's important advice for me.

Clint Watson: 45:58

It's like everything else at some point, you just have to jump in and try it and play it. It's it's, you understand it. Right?

Francien Krieg: 46:05

Exactly. Yeah. And the misconception a lot of artists have in general, about NFT is the traditional artist, I had the same idea in the beginning that if I'm going to go into the NFT world, I have to make some digital adjustment to my painting, or to my sculpture or whatever, to be interesting as an NFT. And that is so totally natural. Just only the painting it that's it. That's enough. Yeah, yes. Then again, then again, there are a lot of traditional artists who are also making some kind of digital adjustments or changes to the original. And that is also popular. So I'm not saying that it's or it is, or that's

Laura Arango Baier: 46:50

smelling. Like you said earlier. Yeah, yeah, there's the

Francien Krieg: 46:54

images. That is so nice about the collaboration that you get in contact with, with artists who can make an animation. I mean, I don't have to take the time to discover all this, this new techniques, and to come in contact with other artists who know how to do that, and make something new together that create something completely new and interesting. Yeah,

Clint Watson: 47:20

well, then it's great way to sell digital art for all these digital artists who have trouble with what do you do with the digital? How do you sell a digital piece? Right? Suddenly, there's a to do this?

Francien Krieg: 47:33

Yeah. Yeah. For those artists, like golden times that that's

Laura Arango Baier: 47:37

exactly, yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, back when I was like, 13, or 12. I remember I would be on DeviantArt all the time. And it was filled with these amazing digital artists. And I was always wondering, like, how do they do anything with this, I mean, because of prints, but I felt like it just, it didn't make sense, because they were producing these incredible pieces that takes so long to make. And it's just as time consuming as learning how to paint with oils. So I'm really happy for that group of people that they can actually lift and make bank on this.

Francien Krieg: 48:12

I feel sometimes I feel a little bit guilty that I know, as a traditional painter, I can sell my paintings, and I can show my NFT. You know, I think that maybe that looks a little greedy or shocking, but you know, I'm not the only one. There's a bunch of artists that are doing the same way. So that's, that's our advantage, I guess.

Laura Arango Baier: 48:30

Yes. And also, like you mentioned earlier, you can sell or like even like how you said about Jeremy lifting that you can sell something that you've already sold? As to as long as you have a picture of it?

Francien Krieg: 48:43

Yeah, yeah, we need to have a good picture because I made that mistake, because I think the most nfts I'm selling now was also a works that are gone that already sold a long time ago. And, but some works. I didn't make very good pictures of it. So I cannot use it as NFT it's important, right?

Laura Arango Baier: 49:06

Yeah, that's a tip for for any artists. That's just starting with the NF T's good pictures, get tezos The ones

Francien Krieg: 49:15

Yeah, yeah. And just reach out. Don't be afraid to ask other artists how things because everybody is very helpful. I was helped a lot with his name is Ross on apple. Oh, I can I can email you his name. He's a very good artist, and I'm still everyday in contact with him. Like he's such a sweetheart and he really helped me a lot. And now if someone asked me something, I'm so happy if I can return this to someone else. Yeah. At the staples, tehsils community very helpful, everybody.

Clint Watson: 49:51

When we first start, I forgot to ask this. You have to get the wallet and I don't remember the name of the wallet but we can. I'm sure or we can figure that out. More options is the wallet where you convert at. So when you first start, you're not gonna own any tezos. Yeah. How are real real, quote unquote money to tezos? Is that does the wallet handle that? Or?

Francien Krieg: 50:17

Oh gee, well, you know that this some time ago that I had to do that, I think that goes to another website where you have to exchange your money for crypto coin. And then you can again, from that website, put on your digital wallets. So it's going in a few steps. It's not like you just only need a digital wallet, you need another website as well.

Clint Watson: 50:43

Well, we'll, we'll come up with a way to mint an NFT on tezo. So we can just see the whole process. Yeah. Maybe we'll miss one of Laura's pieces.

Francien Krieg: 50:54

Yeah, I sit

Laura Arango Baier: 50:56

right now. I think this has really enlightened not just me, but hopefully our listeners because I was also in the side of I don't know what NFT czar, I do have a very simple understanding. But it seems like really sketchy and inaccessible. So I'm really happy. Yeah. On Twitter.

Francien Krieg: 51:13

Yeah. Well, that is really the first step. And if you have no followers on Twitter, Don't start yet with minting or anything just first. Yeah, take your time, get to know the community and build an audience and maybe if you have like 500 followers where you can just mint your first piece, I think something around that amounts before us. So keeping my eye on you, I haven't looked but you what you are making actually that I will I will look it up now. What a difficult name. Where are you?

Laura Arango Baier: 51:51

Um, I'm from Colombia. But my mom's side is from Austria. So it's a bit of a weird mix.

Francien Krieg: 51:56

Yeah. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. So we will meet in the digital space, then. Looking forward, thank

Laura Arango Baier: 52:06

you so much.

Clint Watson: 52:08

Yeah, you did a better job of explaining that. But that's the point I kind of made poorly in that article was don't jump right to NF T's before you build up a following. You can't sell. It's a general marketing principle. You can't sell something before you have demand for it. Yeah. Okay. That's true. Have to demand first and then.

Francien Krieg: 52:30

Yeah, okay. But at some point, you just have to just start minting and listing your work. And then you know, the work will be seen and put yourself out there and all these discord groups and even go to the clubhouse and, you know, do everything and talk a lot in the Twitter spaces. Do all these things, and you will find your followers for sure. Nice.

Clint Watson: 52:54

Yeah. Thank you for sitting down with us and explaining this. It's very enlightening to hear somebody explain that whole community and that particular blockchain firsthand.

Francien Krieg: 53:05

Yeah, yeah. I thought that was important to tell this, this positive experience, which I have.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:12

Thank you so much, both of you, too. Because I know Clint, you put a lot of info in those articles. And they were really interesting. I feel like without reading them, I don't know if I would have gotten to understand what we were talking about. So

Clint Watson: 53:27

I think we have another one coming.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:31

Yeah. A follow up. Yeah. Love it.

Francien Krieg: 53:36

Any help in the future? Just reach out to me and I'll be happy to help.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:40

Of course. Thank you. Thanks, guys.

Clint Watson: 53:44

I'll be seeing on Twitter.

Francien Krieg: 53:46

Okay, yeah, we'll see you soon there. Okay.

Laura Arango Baier: 53:49

See you on Twitter.